Egregoros · Phoenix Framework

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3w

Trans isn't even recognized as a protected class under the Equal Protection Clause (United States v. Skrmetti) so why would the Supreme Court rule that you MUST allow someone to play in a gender segregated sport based on what they identify as?

People out here like WOW SUPREME COURT BAD, HOW COULD THEY

georgia

@georgia@netzsphaere.xyz remote

3w

@feld I'm seeing a lot of outrage based on Thomas's opinion that being trans isnt an immutable characteristic

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@feld@friedcheese.us remote

3w

@georgia it's hard to swallow but he's not wrong. A not insignificant number of people de-transition which means it's obviously not an immutable characteristic.

It sucks but it's true.

Blurry Moon

@sun@shitposter.world remote

3w

@feld @georgia I'm not trying to attac trans people but its just obviously also true that you literally can't know without talking to a person, and then you can't derive intent why someone says they are, why they transitioned, or why they detransitioned. if you can frame this as an immutable characteristic that would be insanely weird

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@scathach@stereophonic.space remote

3w

@sun @feld @georgia Unfortunately it absolutely is an immutable characteristic

Blurry Moon

@sun@shitposter.world remote

3w

@scathach @feld @georgia it is but it's also not one that can really be externally tested which is a really important legal prerequisite in a lot of cases.

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@scathach@stereophonic.space remote

3w

@sun @feld @georgia There is a little bit of research indicating it could be externally tested whether or not someone is trans with fMRI brain scans but last I checked nobody it hasn't been seriously pursued

georgia

@georgia@netzsphaere.xyz remote

3w

@scathach @feld @sun there is also even more compelling overlapping evidence of "gay brain"

Tears for Keirs

@MossGrowsOnNormanRuins@defcon.social remote

3w

@georgia @feld @sun@shitposter.world @scathach the backslide from normie cishet liberals i knew irl in 2019 going "oh i heard trans people have a different shaped brain from the rest of the gender they were born as, that makes sense" and even conversatives agreeing begrudgingly to that to 2020s era "gender is just a feeling" feels so frustrating

georgia

@georgia@netzsphaere.xyz remote

3w

@MossGrowsOnNormanRuins @feld @scathach the idea that gender is just a feeling plays directly into transphobic hands tbh

existential threat

@ikeWren@kill-corporations.enterprises remote

3w

@georgia @MossGrowsOnNormanRuins @feld @scathach yeah i agree that "gender is a feeling" is reductive and counterproductive but i also think that the neuroscience of gender is kinda dubious , lowkey eugenics-coded , and reinforces the psychiatric-state-industrial complex so i do think that we ought to use something somewhat better . same thing for the "gay brain" . using these things is not conducive to a liberatory biopolitics . my foundational text for this is "American Eugenics" by Nancy Ordover , i highly highly recommend it

Tears for Keirs

@MossGrowsOnNormanRuins@defcon.social remote

3w

@ikeWren @feld @georgia @scathach

i routinely get shit for saying there's some scientific basis for a modern day re-evaluation of phrenology. imo regardless of whether or not we want to acknowledge that there's a gay brain and a straight brain based on what political utility it existing would have, there still will be a gay brain and a straight brain

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@ikeWren@kill-corporations.enterprises remote

3w

@MossGrowsOnNormanRuins @feld @georgia @scathach part of the issue is that i just categorically disagree with the idea that there is objectively a gay brain and a straight brain lol , i have not seen any science that is sufficiently convincing to prove this and to my knowledge we have such a poor understanding of what's even going on in there to say that gay and straight cognition and behavior emerge from some preexisting condition of the brain or whether some other shit is going on . maybe im wrong about this and there's some new science about it since then that somehow proves this but it's all very dubious to me

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@feld@friedcheese.us remote

3w

@ikeWren @MossGrowsOnNormanRuins @georgia @scathach

> part of the issue is that i just categorically disagree with the idea that there is objectively a gay brain and a straight brain

But why? We accept that brain chemistry/hormone balance does all sorts of things to humans, so why wouldn't this most likely be a significant factor?

existential threat

@ikeWren@kill-corporations.enterprises remote

3w

@feld @MossGrowsOnNormanRuins @georgia @scathach i take issue with the idea that there can be some static neural predisposition to complex behaviors like sexuality . shit like emotional dysregulation or sex drive are pretty simple in comparison, but sexual and gender orientation involve a lot of extremely complex social and cultural context and it's not like xyz neurotransmitter can change all that

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@ikeWren@kill-corporations.enterprises remote

3w

@feld @MossGrowsOnNormanRuins @georgia @scathach justifying things by their naturalness is stupid and regressive and im tired of pretending that neurological determinism is progressive . it isnt and it never has been just like any kind of determinism . i dont really care if being gay or trans is a choice or not because everyone should be able to choose to Do gay or trans regardless . the glorification of ‘nature’ has nothing to offer us