Egregoros

@7666 @coolboymew you're right and its valid to point out the hypocrisy of republicans on this. the executive branch tho is completely overpowered because of the party duopoly taking turns and has violated the law with impunity since at least andrew jackson. trump is still certainly more concerning right now because of degree. just like, this was always what could have happened because we let it happen for infinity other smaller things in the past.

there is no way out of this except to depower the presidency

@sun @olmitch @7666 @coolboymew what law?

it's been overtly demonstrated via endless activism that the law is "whatever i feel like" and "whatever hurts my enemies." people coined the term anarcho-tyranny because this happens so often that they needed a way to talk about it with other people. if people have to coin this term to describe what they're dealing with, if the supreme court tells the lower courts "knock it the fuck off" and the lower courts reply "make me." if law enforcement openly talks about dragging out cases until they're dropped, then there isn't really any law left. there's just a bunch of petty assholes in dresses that nobody actually has to listen to.

the purpose of law is to create a system where people don't have to use naked force to resolve disputes. if it no longer does that, if it is worse than going back to violence, then people choose to go back to violence.

we are seeing the gradual return to naked force.

@coolboymew here I templated it for you so you can reuse this in your mail merge for your newsletters


"They're <insert_slur_for_group_you_don't_like_here>, they do not have rights and privileges to a certain extent, affording them all of this cost a shitton of time and money that is not going to the local population

And it's pretty funny going about rights and privileges when we have an entire system that is trying to remove the local population rights and privileges because they're mad as fuck about all the <insert_name_of_group_i_don't_like_here> as they're being completely flooded by them and barely can afford anything anymore"

Try it with Jews, Indians, black people, white people, Asians, whatever floats your boat!

@7666 By completely fucking the system you basically make sure that actual cases don't get heard, or won't get heard because nobody cares anymore and wants the whole thing gone because it's been utterly completely fucking abused, and even if we grant asylum to new people... We're putting them in what? Countries whose populations are increasingly being strained? What's the point? They might as well go home

And what about the local population? What about people who got here legit forever ago? Fuck them? Why don't you care about them?

@feld @7666 @coolboymew

Dont you feel like they are exploited by large corporations as a modern form.of slavery though? They are in positions where they have no recourse should they be abused.

As far as econony, they compete for low skilled jobs with citizens, driving down the value of that labor, while simultaneously cometing for housing, driving up the cost.

If youre talking about pure gdp, i dont care about my 401k or large corpo stock prices. I care more about my fellow citizens who are struggling the most.

@rusty_shackleford @7666 @coolboymew

> Dont you feel like they are exploited by large corporations as a modern form.of slavery though? They are in positions where they have no recourse should they be abused.

H1B visa tech workers? Absolutely. But that's not who's being picked up by ICE.

So which corporations are you referring to that are hiring these people without legal status? Because if they are, they're doing it illegally and need to be raided. Only examples I can think of right now are meatpacking plants.

> As far as econony, they compete for low skilled jobs with citizens, driving down the value of that labor,

not really, most of the jobs they do are stuff nobody else wants to. You want to work on a farm and milk cows, spend all day in the sun picking produce? You want to hang drywall or paint all day? It's not fun and the pay isn't great for the amount of damage you do to your body. I can absolutely do this work, grew up doing all of this. But I would never ever do it unless I was absolutely desperate. The work SUCKS. Same with factory work. Been there, done that. Wanted to kill myself. At least factories used to be cool. My mom used to build phone equipment for the telco, said it was basically 8 hours of socializing with your friends while you did some soldering. Factory jobs aren't like that anymore...

> while simultaneously cometing for housing, driving up the cost.

This is a lie, they can't afford houses, can't get a mortgage, so they're not fucking with the housing market. They have almost no impact on apartment prices. They're so broke that's why they have so many people living in one unit. You can Thanos snap and remove every undocumented person from the country and it won't move the housing markets. But it will open up a bunch of derelict housing in places nobody wants to live anyway, and that will probably get demolished and sold to a giant corporation who will build something new there. Well, they would build something new there if they could afford to pay the labor which is now gone. Oh wait, that means we have to hire AMERICANS for construction jobs. Guess what happens to the prices of all housing and trades labor now? up up up up up -- we just made it worse and now have a ton of condemned properties

> If youre talking about pure gdp, i dont care about my 401k or large corpo stock prices. I care more about my fellow citizens who are struggling the most.

Nah, that's not what I'm talking about. They aren't moving your 401k or any of the stock prices of the stocks in the NASDAQ, etc.

They spend their money in your community if they're in your community. Because they have to. They probably do a better job of building a circular economy in your community than everyone else. Mostly because they have to to survive. And then you get the ones with legal status opening up grocery stores, restaurants, etc. The impact is real.

Our economy is 100% reliant on these people. This is something we let happen. We can't undo it. The only thing we can do is fix their status so they get the protections they deserve, and fix the immigration system so it doesn't happen like this ever again.

also hang some billionaires by their toes for intentionally creating this system.

@feld @7666 @coolboymew

"not really, most of the jobs they do are stuff nobody else wants to."

Nice cnn talking point. It implies that work is fine for brown neo-slaves, but that americans are above it. The other problem is that citizens would do those jobs if they paid better wages and not slave wages. But the market for unskilled labor is terrible because millions of illegals drive down the cost of that labor. Which is what giant corporations and wider industries that take advantage of that labor want. If you ignore this you are being intellectually dishonest.

Not gonna be watsing what little time i have left on this earth reading the rest of your regurgitated cnn talking points. Take it easy man.

@coolboymew @7666 buddy, the lizards are convincing you that illegals are draining the government's coffers with fraud when the real fraud is being done by real white American businessmen, especially in the healthcare sector.

this is just regular levels of defrauding the government. It happens everywhere. The solution isn't to eliminate the programs, it's to actually hire enough people to audit the system.

imagine if we put the same level of investigative journalism energy into all the medicare fraud, like how there's still doctors writing fake ass prescriptions for my mom that shows up on her medicare billing but nothing happens when we report it?

they're collectively doing $150M in fraud PER DAY ($60 billion per year) but we can't deport them or turn a raging mob against them because of their skin color so we should just let this one slide eh

and this is only *medicare*

@feld @7666 No matter what, people that shouldn't be there doing fraud is really fucking bad, as it could've been avoided. The whole story also implies a lot of this money got out of the country, so it's not even coming back around, and I'll let you know, usually these communities, when let free to gather a lot like this, usually ends up creating micro economies that mostly tend to themselves, all the while (even without fraud) sending a lot of money abroad to their home countries, which makes us all poorer as a result

@coolboymew so let's circle back to the original topic:

Is fraud bad? Yes

Is defrauding taxpayers worse? Of course

Is this fraud so severe that it should shock Americans to their core and make us turn against immigrants, regardless of their status?

Not even close. Powerful criminals are pushing this as a distraction from problems that are significantly more severe, and racists are loving the opportunity to coerce more and more white Americans into blaming immigrants for economic problems

That's what's going on, and it's stupid to not speak up against it.

Public services are always going to be victim to fraud. The solution isn't to eliminate the programs, but to put in the effort to eliminate the fraud. This will require Republicans to vote to expand the public sector so we can hire people to spend their time auditing the recipients of the funding/grants.

The question everyone should be asking is "Why don't we have enough public servants to stop this before it gets out of control?"


edit: like you can't blame health inspectors for not catching listeria outbreaks when we don't have enough health inspectors to have a meaningful impact. A meatpacking plant getting checked only once every few weeks for 30 years isn't okay.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us/usda-admits-skipped-meat-plant-checks-for-30-years-idUSN29306547/