I think it's impressive that israel brainwashed millions of american christians that their country has any biblical relevance
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@sun I mean if youre not a supercessionist it does because its part of Gods promise to the jewish people but Israel won't be a very relevant important country until end times, and definitely in its current form it isnt worth celebrating
🌿 
@sun
What does the US teach for people for this to happen ?
In France catechism just explains where are the villages/city and were Jesus and his apostles who/where.
At least in my time.
What does the US teach for people for this to happen ?
In France catechism just explains where are the villages/city and were Jesus and his apostles who/where.
At least in my time.
@sun when israel is destroyed who will they decide to heretically revere next 
@georgia the real israel would
@yakmacker @sun theyre wrong, we got a lot of kali yuga to get through first lol
@sun that is the holy land where Jesus came from. the land itself is extremely relevant to the bible, historically, but the modern state of israel isn't controlled by jews who follow the torah. that's the real problem. christian zionism is a military psyop.
@sun pretty sure God needs to come back as israels king for Israel to be a light to the nations. if "they arent ruled by God but by evil men" is what you mean by fake Israel then youre right
@meowski that's what I'm saying
@georgia yeah I don't think christians are obligated to support it
@sun oh I don't think so either
@sun I say bomb isreal and let God sort it out.
@sun
History has shown you can convince anyone of anything if you can find some way to contort your agenda into a BuyBull context. It's the oldest grift on earth.
History has shown you can convince anyone of anything if you can find some way to contort your agenda into a BuyBull context. It's the oldest grift on earth.
@sun They didn't. That's not how it developed.
@georgia @sun it's God's promise to the ancient Israelites (Jewish people did not exist at the time the promise was made), who are entirely distinct from the modern UN mandate of Israel and the people who live there now.
Also, Judah died with no known heirs so I still don't know how there can be any true Jewish people.
Also, Judah died with no known heirs so I still don't know how there can be any true Jewish people.
@Nudhul @georgia @sun Pretty much this. Ashkenazis, mizrahis and sephardis have as much right to call themselves "jews" and "Israel" as Greeks and Italians do (that is to say: none).
A common thing about dispensationalists is that they have no real idea what a jew or a "jew" is. I once met a dipensationalist guy who had some book about judaism and he was disappointed to find out that he does not understand 95% of it, "even though" he said he read the protestants' Old Testament several times over. He kept bumping into notions he never heard of, traditions that Israel never practiced. Dispensationalists do not know that judaism's main books are those of the talmud and the kabbalah; while the OT is not taken seriously.
A common thing about dispensationalists is that they have no real idea what a jew or a "jew" is. I once met a dipensationalist guy who had some book about judaism and he was disappointed to find out that he does not understand 95% of it, "even though" he said he read the protestants' Old Testament several times over. He kept bumping into notions he never heard of, traditions that Israel never practiced. Dispensationalists do not know that judaism's main books are those of the talmud and the kabbalah; while the OT is not taken seriously.
@FruitpilledPeachcel @Nudhul @sun sorry but youre objectively wrong when you say the kaballah is a main book of Judaism and the Tanakh isnt. the talmud is given a lot of priority when the Torah is interpreted, but most jews dont study it and certainly dont pray from it
@sun "american christians" includes belief systems so completely unhinged you'd be tempted to think that the brain capable of holding them would have speciated from the rest of H. sapiens sapiens by now
Americans have -5 penalty to brainwashing saves tho so it's less impressive than it seems
@georgia @sun
mainline (orthodox, catholic and protestant) christian doctrine: jesus came to earth to die for our sins and be raised to life and in doing so is now the king of israel (which under the new covenant = the church), thus fulfilling the prophecy
zionists: we need to establish a secular state called "israel" in order to fulfill the prophecy
it defies logic to think of zionism in traditional christian terms as anything but a heresy and its subject matter anything but a literal antichrist (if an institution rather than a person)
mainline (orthodox, catholic and protestant) christian doctrine: jesus came to earth to die for our sins and be raised to life and in doing so is now the king of israel (which under the new covenant = the church), thus fulfilling the prophecy
zionists: we need to establish a secular state called "israel" in order to fulfill the prophecy
it defies logic to think of zionism in traditional christian terms as anything but a heresy and its subject matter anything but a literal antichrist (if an institution rather than a person)
@apophis @sun the original Zionists didnt establish israel to fulfill prophecy, they werent really religious at all, religious zionism came later. they wanted a jewish state because of rising antisemitism in europe (and to a lesser extent most other places). there are religious jews who also consider Israel an abomination because they think the messiah needs to come before Israel is reestablished, but theyre on the fringe. I personally think supercessionism is wrong but only because i believe most religions are a path to God. even though I also think that eventually all of mankind will convert to a religion upheld by the messiah/kalki/jesus/whatever.
@apophis @georgia @sun 1) "heretic" refers to dissent within the church. Jews are not christian and thus would be heathens, not heretics.
2) you're basically repeating antisemetic talking points, which have been used to justify jewish repression for over a thousand years, but then saying your problem is with israel and not jews.
2) you're basically repeating antisemetic talking points, which have been used to justify jewish repression for over a thousand years, but then saying your problem is with israel and not jews.
@yakmacker @georgia @sun i should clarify given both these replies that i'm just thinking (given the prior discussion and OP) about the christian zionists
and perhaps also that i don't believe that mainline christian doctrine about israel myself, though i do believe it has been a core christian teaching that was only watered down in the past 200 years
and perhaps also that i don't believe that mainline christian doctrine about israel myself, though i do believe it has been a core christian teaching that was only watered down in the past 200 years
@sun They didn't; that's a myth propagated by Redditors (so they can blame the crimes of a protected class on an unprotected class) and by neocon senators (because "voters think Israel is holy and I'm doing what they want" sounds better than "Israel has pictures of me fucking a headless six year old").
There are overwhelming amounts of polling that demonstrate very clearly that the public does not support Israel at anywhere near the level Congress does, and that this dearth of support extends to Evangelicals, Christians, and whoever else they might blame.
There are overwhelming amounts of polling that demonstrate very clearly that the public does not support Israel at anywhere near the level Congress does, and that this dearth of support extends to Evangelicals, Christians, and whoever else they might blame.
@AmericanChampion that only has happened fairly recently, I grew up in this environment
@sun I maintain that anything normal Americans say to this effect amounts to a kind of "sure, whatever, why not" reaction, where all the talking heads that say things they agree with on other issues also say that Israel is great, and it doesn't matter enough to them to look it up. If you can bundle bunches of ideas into a small number of platforms, it's fairly cheap to get people to "believe" whatever you want on one issue as long as they don't really care about it at all.
This is meaningful because it means that there was never a core group of voters that really, really liked Israel. It polled well and then it didn't, but it never held salience, and I suspect that voters would always have opposed giving them so much aid if it were put to a vote.
This is meaningful because it means that there was never a core group of voters that really, really liked Israel. It polled well and then it didn't, but it never held salience, and I suspect that voters would always have opposed giving them so much aid if it were put to a vote.