I wish I lived in a world without sadists and masochists
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@patchuun okay the masochists can stay but they hurt women as a class
@georgia it's not masochistic women's fault men can't be responsible about it and let it get to their heads. anyway, women make better sadists than men 
@patchuun female sadism may be hot but like many hot things its adharmic
@Erato_Heti @patchuun are you really arguing that causing others pain for sexual gratification isnt against dharma
@georgia @Erato_Heti I mean, if the people having pain inflicted on them are themselves getting sexual gratification from it, I don't see why it would be...I don't see pain as having inherent positive or negative moral value, purrspective and circumstance matters a lot
but I'm not a dharmic religion girlie and don't know much about how sexuality and religion interact under hinduism so ๐คทโโ๏ธ
but I'm not a dharmic religion girlie and don't know much about how sexuality and religion interact under hinduism so ๐คทโโ๏ธ
@patchuun @Erato_Heti if you read the bhagavad gita people who enjoy torturing themselves are considered to be highly tamasic (bad thing)
@patchuun @georgia @Erato_Heti what is considered adharmic/unrighteous is really gonna depend on who you ask. some people think being trans is adharmic so i mean. also hinduism and sexuality is a complicated topic cuz hinduism is like a million different philosophies wrapped up under one name which was given to them all by british colonists, which isn't to discount the value of grouping them together but i think it's important context
@unmind @patchuun @Erato_Heti @georgia I know for a fact shiva wants me to have wild violent kinky sex to wake the dormant kudalini energy within me;3
@GreyNA @Erato_Heti @patchuun @unmind westerners like crowley have perverted tantra tbh its usually not a sex thing and most tantric sex practices are pretty milquetoast and consist in controlling bindu or in channeling sexual energy for a purpose. there are exceptions but this is the norm.
@georgia @Erato_Heti @patchuun @unmind I really donโt think these practices are as dogmatic and literal as your taking them, but I donโt really know.
@Erato_Heti @patchuun women who like being hurt very often self-abnegate in other ways, revelling in being humiliated and treated like sexual objects. the personal is very political and women as a class suffer from the perception of women like these being the norm. honestly I would argue that trans women in particular suffer from this given things like bimboification and sissy porn which promote the worst forms of degraded womanhood.
@Erato_Heti @patchuun try some honest self critique for a bit. women live under patriarchy which has constructed a masochistic and submissive sexuality for them. if a significant cohort of african slaves living under white supremacy fetishized their own enslavement, I would say they hurt african slaves as a class.
@georgia @patchuun im going to self critique myself by saying you are deeply lost in the sauce and trying to delicately explain to you this stuff is a waste of time. Youre being ignorant and deeply alienating most of the women you claim to speak for. Men dont want us to have any sexual mores outside thier modus on control point blank end of story. Anything we do for us is for us. Goodbye.
@Erato_Heti @patchuun "i do it for me" choice feminism is a form of liberalism and I'm a radical feminist. defend porn next why dont cha. and I am not alienating most women I claim to speak for unless youre claiming most women are masochists.
@georgia @Erato_Heti I've read Dworkin and I'm sure Erato has as well. I think it is totally possible on an individual level to engage in and even endorse engaging in sadomasochistic play while also maintaining a critical attitude toward patriarchal sexual institutions and misogyny (internalized or otherwise) such as that which manifests in the performative masochism and submissiveness of, for instance, tradwife influencer types. If anything, I suspect that at least some substantial slice of the tradwife influencer class does what they do in part as (what they see as) a more culturally or socially acceptable, or politically expedient, outlet for their spicier fantasies that doubles as a grift; it'd probably be much healthier both for them and for society as a whole if they just said "you know what, yeah, this shit just turns me on like nothing else and I wanna do it in a controlled environment with someone I trust and love" like the rest of us instead of making it their whole purrsonality and pretending it's some inviolable law of nature that everyone else has to adhere to, turning their neurotic rationalization for their own perversions into everyone else's problem
@patchuun @Erato_Heti ive read some dworkin but not enough. I think individuals can do something and have the right to do it but its not free of consequences politically. if masochism and sadism were evenly distributed among men and women I wouldnt say it was harmful to women as a class. but it isnt, they are starkly gendered and all gendered things are worthy of criticism esp those that involve forms of violence.
@patchuun @georgia @Erato_Heti >turning their neurotic rationalization for their own perversions into everyone else's problem
many such cases
many such cases
@georgia @Erato_Heti @patchuun being hurt sucks
bf had to stop slapping me during sex cause i ended up crying twice
bf had to stop slapping me during sex cause i ended up crying twice