I wish I lived in a world without sadists and masochists
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@georgia :(
@patchuun okay the masochists can stay but they hurt women as a class
@georgia it's not masochistic women's fault men can't be responsible about it and let it get to their heads. anyway, women make better sadists than men 
@patchuun female sadism may be hot but like many hot things its adharmic
@Erato_Heti @patchuun women who like being hurt very often self-abnegate in other ways, revelling in being humiliated and treated like sexual objects. the personal is very political and women as a class suffer from the perception of women like these being the norm. honestly I would argue that trans women in particular suffer from this given things like bimboification and sissy porn which promote the worst forms of degraded womanhood.
@Erato_Heti @patchuun try some honest self critique for a bit. women live under patriarchy which has constructed a masochistic and submissive sexuality for them. if a significant cohort of african slaves living under white supremacy fetishized their own enslavement, I would say they hurt african slaves as a class.
@georgia @Erato_Heti I've read Dworkin and I'm sure Erato has as well. I think it is totally possible on an individual level to engage in and even endorse engaging in sadomasochistic play while also maintaining a critical attitude toward patriarchal sexual institutions and misogyny (internalized or otherwise) such as that which manifests in the performative masochism and submissiveness of, for instance, tradwife influencer types. If anything, I suspect that at least some substantial slice of the tradwife influencer class does what they do in part as (what they see as) a more culturally or socially acceptable, or politically expedient, outlet for their spicier fantasies that doubles as a grift; it'd probably be much healthier both for them and for society as a whole if they just said "you know what, yeah, this shit just turns me on like nothing else and I wanna do it in a controlled environment with someone I trust and love" like the rest of us instead of making it their whole purrsonality and pretending it's some inviolable law of nature that everyone else has to adhere to, turning their neurotic rationalization for their own perversions into everyone else's problem
@patchuun @Erato_Heti ive read some dworkin but not enough. I think individuals can do something and have the right to do it but its not free of consequences politically. if masochism and sadism were evenly distributed among men and women I wouldnt say it was harmful to women as a class. but it isnt, they are starkly gendered and all gendered things are worthy of criticism esp those that involve forms of violence.
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