Egregoros

@newt @phnt @sendpaws @maid
> I very much doubt Linux will ever have a way to verify the date

-Computer have hardware level DRM, ME/PSP/TrustZones etc...
-Computer won't start if the OS isn't signed by a trust party you don't control.
-Computer requires mandatory internet connection to boot.
-No more local accounts, online only.
-Your account is linked to your irl ID.
-You can't browser common websites/.gov site as web DRM will check if your OS is signed.

This is already planned as it's progressively enforced more and more.
-Hardware is already full of DRM
-MS has mandatory online account
-Computer phones furthered this behavior via "stores"/repositories.
-Web DRM is slowly being used, youtube tries so often to push it on various part of the population, yandex too, various websites in general
-Current laws are being pushed and code is being integrated for ID/age check.

@phnt@fluffytail.org @sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party @maid@shitposter.world @mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world @newt@stereophonic.space No, sorry. I agree that appealing to computer illiterate users is detrimental when taken too far, but I do not think this is an excuse to deny the general population encouragement to free themselves. They are better here than there. We have more control over the Linux experience as end users. When they enshittify it as they've already been doing, it will be harder for the RedHat/Microsoft cult to maintain an iron grip like what Windows allows. We still lose the ecosystem, but we make any "muh user friendly" numbing unenforceable and create a gateway for freedom to seep back in when people get tired again. Just look at what happened to XOrg. Still not dead, infact people are more vocally against Wayland's creeping now than ever.

Plus, GNOME design elitists and similar are blind to their users regardless. It doesn't matter how many new users turn over or not because they are going to keep pretending they are at the forefront of "user friendly Linux" since it is a power fantasy for them. The correct response is to bring new users over but inform them of the better options they have, that individual choice does not have to be scary and user friendliness does not mean mimicking a cell phone. People who want to turn us back into passive consumers are not going to stop at "there are no users" because they're out of touch and see enthusiasts as potential conversion anyway (that or they call us all fascists, because when politics are involved that is considered a "win" in their book).

@bonkmaykr @sendpaws @maid @mangeurdenuage @newt

>No, sorry. I agree that appealing to computer illiterate users is detrimental when taken too far, but I do not think this is an excuse to deny the general population encouragement to free themselves.

We agree on this. My point wasn't that bringing more people will be bad, it was that if you bring more people in the current state, it will be bad.

>When they enshittify it as they've already been doing, it will be harder for the RedHat/Microsoft cult to maintain an iron grip like what Windows allows.

Red Hat is already almost the only reason why Linux desktop is currently even working, but also almost the only reason why it sucks. When you look at almost any major project, they are maintaining it or involved in it. GCC is maintained mostly by Red Hat, glibc's maintainer is from Red Hat, Red Hat is also involved in iconv and coreutils. And that's just GNU projects. You then look at FreeDesktop projects and it's even more Red Hat. Mesa is quite a lot of Red Hat along with GPU companies, NetworkManager is almost exclusively Red Hat, GNOME is heavily sponsored by Red Hat. Point is, IBM can decide to kill Linux at any moment, if they wish to via Red Hat as a proxy. They are already the only absolute foundation of the whole "ecosystem".

But they are also by proxy the reason why Linux sucks. Wayland always was heavily pushed by Red Hat along with it's stupid sandboxing, portals and all that other crap that never works properly. Flatpak is heavily pushed by GNOME, ie. Red Hat.

>Just look at what happened to XOrg. Still not dead, infact people are more vocally against Wayland's creeping now than ever.

And those people are at the whims of Wayland devs. Any time some lunatic can decide to delete X11 support from mesa and it's not like anyone from the small community will be able to maintain that. Any time GNOME devs can decide that the next GTK version will be Wayland only and you aren't maintaining that heap of garbage either.

>The correct response is to bring new users over but inform them of the better options they have, that individual choice does not have to be scary and user friendliness does not mean mimicking a cell phone.

Do you know what the only correct way to convert someone to Linux is?

1. Be a normie
2. Only use a word processor and a web browser
3. Have someone that can be tech support at all times
4. Have someone deep into Linux install and configure Mint for you
5. Never, ever, visit any Linux-related forum or ask for help online

And I don't mean the last point lightly. The Linux community is one of the most annoying, smug and condescending communities you can find at all. The moment someone that is clueless about an issue asks for help online, it is over. GNU/Tards are especially bad, considering they've made it their life goal to be as annoying as possible to every possible and existing Linux user. They are the biggest blight in this community, which is why I think they need to go away as quickly as possible. One of the very long list of reasons why I react to their posts the way I do.

Also on the point of user-friendliness and why things worked better 10-15 years ago. 10 years ago, a user had an operating system, one package manager, one theme, one way to install applications. Today a user has to think about Flatpaks, Snaps, AppImages, their OS package manager; whether they use PulseAudio or Pipewire (both break in different ways at random); whether they are using Wayland or not (Wayland is still broken in unique ways); whether they are running apps sandboxed without knowing, eg. Flatpaks/Snaps (apps randomly break, files the user wants to interact with aren't always visible due to sandboxing, apps don't usually respect system theme at all,...); what even is a portal and why doesn't it work,...