the dialog systems in rpgs like baldurs gate 3 are completely retarded. it's already retarded in the orignal pen and paper game. so you say a thing, then you roll the dice, and either you 'persuaded' someone or not. you didn't? well, just quickload and try again. it takes agency away from the player in the worst way, so of course it encourages savescumming.
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@lain Come home white man
@lain Reminds of Mass Effect dialog options where the dialog and character sometimes say things with completely different meanings.
@hfaust i think the best thing i can do about bethesda games is be silent
@phnt you know how i can really feel immersed in a different world? when it all depends on some spreadsheet points i set in the opening.
@grillchen @hfaust witcher doesn't have this issue, does it?
@lain Silent is complicity.
@lain isn't there an ironman mode or something like that to avoid the temptation?
@Arwalk sure, but it's not the savescumming that's the issue (for me), it's the random outcome of in something that's not player skill based. it's just a spreadsheet rolling a die.
@hfaust i just have zero interest to play the, the few times i tried i thought they were ugly and boring, but i know many people love them so who am i to talk.
@i @Arwalk maybe here it's just the extreme dissonance between the thing that happens (you say some words to someone) and what actually matters (there's some virtual diceroll whether your words are persuasive). i don't really enjoy non-deterministic battle either, but that's easier to swallow (at least to me)
@lain I always thought the appeal was to mod the fuck out of them
@lain it's better when it's just a hard check, either your character has the persuasion skill and it works or he doesn't and it doesn't.
@i @lain @Arwalk
>but it also kills most of the replayability
I disagree. If you want replayability, make multiple paths for the player to take and they will take different paths on playthroughs if they feel like it. Ideally make them result in different endings so there's actually point in them. It's that easy. You don't need a mechanic where the game fucks you over making the player choose between savescumming or forcefully taking a different path they didn't want.
>but it also kills most of the replayability
I disagree. If you want replayability, make multiple paths for the player to take and they will take different paths on playthroughs if they feel like it. Ideally make them result in different endings so there's actually point in them. It's that easy. You don't need a mechanic where the game fucks you over making the player choose between savescumming or forcefully taking a different path they didn't want.
@phnt @i @Arwalk i wouldn't mind being locked out of a certain path because i chose certain dialog options, because that's what i said and maybe it was wrong, but making it depend on a dice roll just doesn't fit with player agency and also doesn't fit with the cinematic presentation of modern games.
