speaking of blood jesus doesnt save by some magical property blood has to save lest humans attempt to have their sins expiated by shedding their own blood or heaven forbid the blood of another being. imo he saves by the willingness of God to be gracious onto those who understand their own predicament and Gods unique position to deliver them by suffering in their stead.
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3suffering expiates blood doesnt expiate
@georgia bullshit. What do you want to expiate? Just a cheap excuse to justify masochists. If you tell me the meaning of that was to show how someone who has gone through purification confront fear and suffering, how they face death without attachment to one's own life I'd understand.
@sathariel sorry what? saying suffering expiates is just basic karma theory, and theres nothing masochistic about devoting ones suffering to God (sattvic and beyond the gunas). it is the opposite of masochism (tamasic). jesus laid down his life for his friends and his mission yes but what was his mission and who were his friends?
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@georgia have you proven that theory or have you just read about it and mixed it with more philosophical terms?
@sathariel you gotta be more specific. if youre talking about karma then Indian thought has pretty complex theories about it. but "dharmic conduct brings pleasant results but adharmic conduct brings bad fruit including suffering" is one of the few things agreed upon by everyone. there is debate about action vs inaction but I'd argue the bhagavad gita settles it.
@georgia I'm just saying that someone as purified as Jesus was would face that situation like he did, even through his own fear and even through his suffering he stayed still in God. Anything about expiation whatever is added by closet masochists.
@sathariel thats a pretty simplistic rendering of jesuss mission he didnt just have firm faith in God in the face of suffering he actively wanted others to take up their own cross and suffer with him, abandoning all worldly ties for the highest dharma of love of God and eachother. and his suffering was a suffering that freed others from the bondage of their sin by their bhakti in him as an avatara. a lot of historic Christian mystical thought involving ecstatic states involves focusing on christs passion and sharing in it with him. again, devoting your suffering to God is an ultimate act of submitting to the will of God. its not masochism.
@georgia and this is what I call bullshit. Few good things come from this and so much deception. But I'm happy you consider my post simplistic.
@sathariel why are you so mad about this is the question
@georgia I'm not mad, I'm tired of read and hear this bullshit. This slows down the spiritual advance of many persons.
@sathariel sole fide is toxic I agree but any belief that advocates for a devotion to God including devotion to God in the bhava as savior is one that leads to final beatitude. "God suffered for you out of pure love so love and believe in Him", I see nothing but love of God in this.
@georgia would you think I'm mad with you if I reply honestly? I swear I'm not.
@georgia I regret it, I truly like you. Keep walking your own way, I won't interfere.
@sathariel you seem to think that I think everyone needs to believe in jesus or theyll go to hell for ever because jesus saves. I dont believe that I believe that all beings will return to God one day and that there are many paths to do it and that yeshua bhakti in the bhava of God as savior is one of them
@georgia >all beings will return to God one day and that there are many paths to do it and that yeshua bhakti in the bhava of God as savior is one of them
I agree, but it's a path that hardly someone can take and get anything from it
I agree, but it's a path that hardly someone can take and get anything from it
@sathariel some notable saints have done it actually
@georgia @sathariel i feel like if you read the new testament gospels in a different way untainted by 1000s of years of cultural shaping and religion its actually telling you its all bullshit, the blood atonement, the worry of sin, the attempting to please god, its all a load of shit and really you should just care for your neighbor.
@technolyze @sathariel thats just secular humanism though. secular humanism has never led to liberation, if you want that become a mahayana buddhist.
@georgia @sathariel people and their neighbors with means and love for each other is what has led to liberation in the real world, quiet literally humans lead to their own liberation.
great example of this is the gospels themselves "father why have you forsaken me" its like a deep spiritual mystery with the belief of christianity, but if you look at the stories, the people who dont forsake him are his friends and his neighbors, that take down his body and give him a loving burial and all the magic resurrection shit seems to be added on years later by most textual analysis as well
great example of this is the gospels themselves "father why have you forsaken me" its like a deep spiritual mystery with the belief of christianity, but if you look at the stories, the people who dont forsake him are his friends and his neighbors, that take down his body and give him a loving burial and all the magic resurrection shit seems to be added on years later by most textual analysis as well
@technolyze @sathariel honestly in your last post it seemed like your ideology was entirely based on jesus saying father why have you forsaken me and "take this cup from me" and now it seems like it really is based on that. jesus preached that the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart so that really can't be reconciled with your assertion. highest dharma isnt to love one another because others have your back when God doesnt (which is in an inversion, God has your back when others dont and many of jesuss neighbors were cruel to him) its to love all beings with an even eye, seeing God in them and them in God. also the resurrection was a very early christian belief and I'd argue if it had not happened christianity wouldnt have taken off so much as a successful sect in light of it challenging judaism in so many ways. the first ending of mark has the women find the tomb empty. everything in mark after 16 verse 8 is added sure.
@georgia @sathariel i think you have been slowly brainwashed by an evangelical/trad/far-right echo chamber from your average agnostic crystal enjoyer into this, im really just throwing random things at the wall to see how far you go to bat for christianity. I see you are at the "jesus for sure really resurrected cause the religion designed to de-radicalize jews took off"
@technolyze @sathariel lmao how could I be radicalized by trads if I never was in their echochamber? the only christians ive ever interacted with seriously are catholic or non-white. I'd argue that your exposure to a predominantly evangelical form of christianity has predisposed you to seeing "christofascists" everywhere. you seem to think that belief in the life of an incarnation or avatara is the stuff of religious extremism, am I an extremist for believing that krishna really did kill demons and dance with the gopis? if you want to know my beliefs ask my beliefs because prots would consider me an idolator, dont troll me to determine my beliefs. its beneath you.
@georgia @sathariel im on the same side of fedi, i see the post floating around. Sure im a crypto racist rich white cracker jew living in the norhteast.
@georgia @sathariel
also
>an extremist for believing that krishna really did kill demons and dance with the gopis?
yes you are a mentally unwell religious fundamentalist with a touch of crystal girl stuff, next you will be talking about receiving secret news about government programs to fight demons via light language
also
>an extremist for believing that krishna really did kill demons and dance with the gopis?
yes you are a mentally unwell religious fundamentalist with a touch of crystal girl stuff, next you will be talking about receiving secret news about government programs to fight demons via light language
@technolyze @sathariel okay I guess every believer who is more than a dabbler is a fundamentalist now, even those who believe multiple religions are revealed or people who dont believe in scriptural infallibility like me. you can criticize me for liking tarot cards but I havent been agnostic in years, and my religion when I was agnostic was a toxic amalgamate of chaomagick and thelema and the most arrogant sort of advaita vedanta. just go back to telling me to kill myself.
@georgia @sathariel
>every believer who is more than a dabbler is a fundamentalist now
no but there is a weird pipeline for the newagey bullshit agnostic people to slowly think jesus is coming back and the world is in a secret war between demons/angels and spirits and is generally a tool to further the complete unhinging of the population to be easily swayed without evidence beyond vibes.
>every believer who is more than a dabbler is a fundamentalist now
no but there is a weird pipeline for the newagey bullshit agnostic people to slowly think jesus is coming back and the world is in a secret war between demons/angels and spirits and is generally a tool to further the complete unhinging of the population to be easily swayed without evidence beyond vibes.
@technolyze @sathariel I dont believe any of those things I think maybe you need to leave your echochambers
@georgia @sathariel you just told me about how you thought krishna actually fought demons fam
@georgia @sathariel you know hindu supremacism also an insane right wing movement that seeks to institute fascist social reforms in india?
@technolyze @sathariel you call out religious fascism and fanaticism everywhere except when muslim supremacists practice it. when the houthis say curse upon the jews, you defended them. i have called out israel for their genocide of a mostly muslim people in gaza. bangladeshi muslims once committed a genocide against hindus, and yet you act as if somehow hindus are more obligated to follow your law of secular humanism than the rest of the indian subcontinent. I dont support BJP or most forms of nationalism. in my eyes nationalism is only a stepping stone to statehood for the stateless. I think that pride in ones ethnicity turns one against God. but tell me this: why is wanting india to be governed by hindu dharma (I dont believe in the dharma shastras btw, they were always a tool of the brahmin elite but I'll use this term) "fascism" but wanting yemen governed by a certain strain of sharia is an acceptable and understandable response to jewish imperialism? dont you see that hindu, Jain, and later Sikh india was once subject to Islamic imperialism as well?
@georgia @sathariel
>except when muslim supremacists practice it.
no, i believe the past message you are referencing is me saying "random demonization of islam statements is the easy way to get out of acknowledging a genocide is actually happening."
>why is wanting india to be governed by hindu dharma (I dont believe in the dharma shastras btw, they were always a tool of the brahmin elite but I'll use this term) "fascism" but wanting yemen governed by a certain strain of sharia is an acceptable and understandable response to jewish imperialism? dont you see that hindu, Jain, and later Sikh india was once subject to Islamic imperialism as well?
both bad
>except when muslim supremacists practice it.
no, i believe the past message you are referencing is me saying "random demonization of islam statements is the easy way to get out of acknowledging a genocide is actually happening."
>why is wanting india to be governed by hindu dharma (I dont believe in the dharma shastras btw, they were always a tool of the brahmin elite but I'll use this term) "fascism" but wanting yemen governed by a certain strain of sharia is an acceptable and understandable response to jewish imperialism? dont you see that hindu, Jain, and later Sikh india was once subject to Islamic imperialism as well?
both bad
@georgia @sathariel also interesting you say you arent slowly being brainwashed by western fundamentalist view points while using one of their laziest talking points, "YA WELL YOU LIKE MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALIST" - which is just sorta a dishonest sidebar
@technolyze @sathariel I'm just sick of white people demanding one thing for india and another thing for pakistan, it is itself rooted in western chauvinism and is of the attitude of british imperialists who think they can run india better than the plurality or majority of india.
@georgia @sathariel you are just taking the opposite view point while fitting all your western outsider traits, except you are going "sorry whiny punjabi you get what your country thinks you deserve"
@technolyze @sathariel average westerner who criticizes le saffron terror doesnt actually care about punjabis they just like having a cudgel to beat unenlightened browns who arent secular humanists like them with
@georgia @sathariel you dont actually care about indian culture, you just use it as a cudgel to beat browns who are secular humanist or punjabi
@technolyze @sathariel a good 50 percent of my free time is spent reading about elements of Indian culture but sure keep accusing me of being a crypto-fascist, absolutely nothing paranoid about that
@georgia @sathariel i didnt say you were a fascist i just said you are slowly adopting the beliefs of a bunch of them subconsciously because you spend too much time on dark fedi
@technolyze @sathariel and I'm telling you youre very wrong. I dont follow anyone from dark fedi anymore except a few shitposters who never talk about religion. my biggest Christian influence is @lizzie by far, and then luce. neither of them are dark fedi or even remotely close to it.
@georgia @sathariel
>a good 50 percent of my free time is spent reading about elements of Indian culture
also this is literally the same as the dude/lady that goes
> i went to college for dialectical materialism so i know a thing or two about the economy and western imperialism
>a good 50 percent of my free time is spent reading about elements of Indian culture
also this is literally the same as the dude/lady that goes
> i went to college for dialectical materialism so i know a thing or two about the economy and western imperialism
@technolyze @sathariel except you said I dont really care about Indian culture and countering that with spending most of my free time reading about Indian culture is a pretty good refutation
@georgia @sathariel what are the top 3 indian tech companies and how many of them own entire cities?
@technolyze @sathariel when I said Indian culture I meant hinduism and medieval and early modern Indian culture. ask me about ramanuja or something.
@georgia @sathariel 1 of them owns a city,
Wipro
Infosys
Tata Consultancy Services (TCS)
probably the top 3 but most people refer to the top 5 "WITCH"
Wipro
Infosys
Tata Consultancy Services (TCS)
Cognizant
and HCLtech
ya they do the caste system thing in the office, its pretty uncomfortable to see how management treats marginally darker indians
Wipro
Infosys
Tata Consultancy Services (TCS)
probably the top 3 but most people refer to the top 5 "WITCH"
Wipro
Infosys
Tata Consultancy Services (TCS)
Cognizant
and HCLtech
ya they do the caste system thing in the office, its pretty uncomfortable to see how management treats marginally darker indians
@technolyze @sathariel the varna system was never about skin color in fact there are upanishadic and puranic examples of skin color preference going either way, theres one upanishad thats like "if a mother and father eat rice cooked in butter they will have a dark-skinned boy who knows three vedas". the modern whiteness obsession and with it things like whitening creams and oppression of dravidians and preference for northerners is entirely attributable to anglo imperialism -_-
@technolyze @sathariel I'm thinking of an article I read about indians who said only brahmins and kshatriyas could code in python or something like that its pretty ugly.
@georgia @sathariel @technolyze this isn't accurate, the caste system and colorism in India preceded western influence, not that it helped
@subnetter @sathariel @technolyze the caste system very much did and was only somewhat disrupted by the bhakti movement but colorism went either way in my understanding (admittedly based mostly on primary sources). you have on the one hand the story of parvati becoming gauri and the other the upanishad I mentioned.
@georgia @sathariel what is indian office culture like? do they observe the caste system subconsciously within it?
@technolyze @sathariel ive heard yes to the latter but this kind of thing, tech and work life, I do not bother learning about it's a huge bore for me.
@georgia @sathariel thats the actual culture the people on the ground are experiencing
@technolyze @sathariel but its not the culture they actually care about its the kind of stuff you could learn from bbc or al jeezera and I dont read the news anymore. I should ask meeper for some Bollywood recs so I can finally learn hindu I learned Devanagari but then forgot it due to lack of practice.
@georgia @sathariel sure and american culture is all about martin luther, the 49ers, cowboys and thomas jefferson