Egregoros

@SuperDicq saw some idiot the other day call openclaw "distributed computing" lol it offloads 100% of its work to openai

@sun@shitposter.world @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo Well I'm guessing you can install ollama on an Android/Termux + bypass OpenAI... can run the pieces wherever you like. So it can be "distributed" however it suits you.

@nom @SuperDicq it runs like shit with local models

@sun@shitposter.world @nom@mk.spook.social The only reason for that is because these AI companies are proprietary hellholes who do not share their code so we could run the same shit at home if we wanted to.

@SuperDicq @nom no the models that work the best are just too big to fit on consumer gpus

@sun@shitposter.world @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo @nom@mk.spook.social that's what makes strix halo and apple's unified memory on the mac studio so great.

@lolitechengineer @SuperDicq @nom I have seen people using local models but claude/chatgpt blows the doors off them

@sun@shitposter.world @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo Not true, really, for those of us in the US who can extrapolate/have some modicum amount of imagination.

Definitely true if you've become a slave to the big ai modules / are trapped in lockstep greater Asia.

@nom @SuperDicq every time I'm told local models are as good as chatgpt I try it and it is if you only test it for a minute. if you do anything complicated they're just inferior

@sun@shitposter.world @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo Yes indeedie I think we all know that openai or claude on a great GPU are just dandy... but the local models are "good enough" to build horizontal product already.

Also, many robotic AI tasks can be done at home with fallback to the cloud. I mean it's pretty obvious.

A lot of systems are going to REQUIRE fallback to local models so please think about that when you're designing AI products in the near term for use at home.

@nom @SuperDicq I am an enthusiastic supporter of local models. I have a 24GiB nvidia 4090 for it. but most people are just using an api key on openclaw afaict and the reddits are filled with people saying they went back to chatgpt

@SuperDicq @sun @nom I mean they actually do release a bunch of research papers or did at least until recently the actual code really isn't that significant and it's mostly infra handling the vast datasets afaik, the real stuff is the training data and most of it is stolen copyrighted stuff so :)

@meeper@udongein.xyz @sun@shitposter.world @nom@mk.spook.social Yeah that's another whole problem too. They can't even share their training data if they wanted to because it's fucking illegal.

@SuperDicq @meeper @nom I didn't care about copyright violating for learning stuff before, but I didn't have time to sift through all of it myself. the big companies chewed it all up and made it digestible now, so win win

@sun @SuperDicq @nom @meeper my only real issue with this is that insofar the trump admin is just giving meta et all a free pass because "idk AI or something."

i'm fine with us just saying IP is over, had a bad run, lets move on to the star trek future. what i'm absolutely not going to tolerate is "meta and anthropic steals everything illegally, monopolizes and monetizes it, and then oh no we have to respect copyrights again (?)"

@icedquinn @SuperDicq @nom @meeper its a real problem I'm just saying right now I get the benefit of piracy via a third party to learn a ton of stuff and that's actually a good thing.

@SuperDicq it does apply to companies. this is a rather unique break in protocol.

@sun they should send zuck to prison for 9,000,000 years just like all the moms who pirated 12 tracks of music and were harassed that they caused infinity billions in damages.

or we should just admit copyright is over.

@nom @meeper

@icedquinn @SuperDicq @nom @meeper do it to all the music ai companies that clearly pirated music. leave alone models trained on scientific data that should be free anyway

@icedquinn@blob.cat @sun@shitposter.world @nom@mk.spook.social @meeper@udongein.xyz The last scenario is unfortunately the most likely outcome.

Copyright doesn't apply to you if you're a big company. It only exists to oppress us.

@SuperDicq @icedquinn @meeper @sun @nom
>Copyright doesn't apply to you if you're a big company. It only exists to oppress us.
Once again proof that copyright is dumb. If it isn't enforced, it shouldn't exist. Simple as.

@phnt @SuperDicq @nom @sun @meeper it is enforced, just not for this

@icedquinn @SuperDicq @nom @sun @meeper Let me rephrase that. If it isn't enforced equally, it shouldn't exist. Simple as.

@sun@shitposter.world What do you mean it works great? You're sending a bunch of markdown files to an LLM API. It literally doesn't do anything special.

@SuperDicq

@sun@shitposter.world I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. Dropbox sucks and was never useful. I still self host my files on my server?

I don't get that take on the iPod though. Music players are nice, not the iPod though, unless you flash RockBox.

@SuperDicq what I'm saying is you can minimize any amazing thing by just listing its components without addressing how they are orchestrated to make them achieve more than the sum of their parts

@SuperDicq I am not so stupid that I give it unfettered access to my user accounts for anything. I gave it its own chat and email accounts and am just playing with it but it does some cool stuff

@sun@shitposter.world I'm very curious as to what it does that has genuinely amazed you.

@SuperDicq very fluid and seamless automation

@sun@shitposter.world Do you genuinely think OpenClaw is amazing?

@SuperDicq I'll say it's really interesting.

@sun@shitposter.world I think the software itself isn't very interesting. It is bad and poorly made.

The social effects of it are definitely interesting though, but not in a good way.

@SuperDicq yeah I agree it is poorly made. I am speccing out a better thing for my own use when I have time.

@sun@shitposter.world I did see Picoclaw, which is like the same idea but written in Golang and small enough to able to run on an embedded device? Still doesn't solve the core security issues of this whole thing though.

@SuperDicq yeah i am addressing security specifically

@sun@shitposter.world How are you going to solve the issue with the fact that in order to call APIs it needs passwords?

@SuperDicq I have it solved, too lazy to write it out here.

@sun@shitposter.world @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo it's a neat toy
It's like wow, look at that little guy go!

@sun @SuperDicq > popular means good haha if im on the side of the popular Current Thing i will win every argument

@fiore @sun @SuperDicq its funny cause the ipod actually died relatively quickly like the iphone came out like 5 years later and completely replaced it by 10

@coolbean @SuperDicq @sun same happened with dropbox fwiw

@coolbean @SuperDicq @sun > have broken business model
> only be popular because you offer an unsustainable service for free
> vc funds dry up
> make your free tier more strict
> users leave

oh no who couldve seen this happen

@fiore @SuperDicq @sun this is why google keeps winning they actually have a savings account

@coolbean @SuperDicq @sun google drive actually sucks ass nowadays , it used to be peak cloud storage and now its slow as a rock

@fiore @coolbean @SuperDicq @sun Also forcing to backup all your data to it by default and therefore making it always full wasn't the smartest idea either. It worked for iCloud because Apple users are willing to pay for something.

@SuperDicq @sun it builds its own tools. I had it develop custom things in node and python. The Markdown just tells it how to use the tools it built and what they're for.

@feld@friedcheese.us @sun@shitposter.world Isn't it infinitely more efficient to just share the code with other people instead of just sharing instructions on how to write the code?

Is this what the future is going to be like? No more software? Just every app being a markdown file and everyone running their own vibecoded version of it?

@SuperDicq @sun the future is going to be whatever the hell you want it to be

but there are plenty of apps/tools that have never existed before because nobody thought it was a problem worth solving, or there isn't a good enough product-market-fit

now you can make custom tools pretty easily to solve almost any problem you have. I have a ton of things I've wished for but never had the time to build, and now I can have those things solved quite easily.

It's liberating.

@feld@friedcheese.us @sun@shitposter.world I don't think it's very "liberating" to have a proprietary SaaSS API build software for you.

You what is actually liberating? The free software movement where people build code and share it with each other so you don't have to do everything yourself.

@SuperDicq @feld nobody's stopping you from sharing the code your openclaw wrote. I uploaded my delta chat gateway to my publoc git server