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holy shit you can get batteries now (100kwh total) which are sodium ion and will last the next 30 years -- this is enough to power your whole house -- for less than $6000

there's almost no excuse to not install your own battery system now and get solar

@feld maybe you missed this, i don't know. where i live, in the UK, there is a "crisis" of people only being able to rent homes, not own them, because we literally cannot afford to take out a mortgage to "buy" a home. so saying that "anyone who owns a house" can do X is frankly laughable.

@lw housing market is really bad in the USA in all the major metro markets. You can find good cheap houses in rural America though, but you have to accept the reality that now you're stuck in rural America with nothing to do and no culture for hundreds of miles lol

as soon as it collapses I'll be buying. I sold my cheap shitty condo in 2022 and have been moving around the country / renting ever since.
@lw oh no you misunderstand, you get the $40k loan *to buy a car* and put near zero down to do it.


September 2025:

> The average American new car buyer paid $50,080 in September — a new record, and the first time the figure has ever topped the $50,000 mark.


They won't let you use your car for collateral on another loan unless it's very special.
@lw I don't think most are abusive. They're not crazy high interest or anything.

They are dangling high interest rate loans with like... 72+ month terms now which is absolutely insane... but that's not normal or anything. Only people with completely wrecked credit are forced to do those.

for better or worse, the house is the backbone of our economy. Once you have one, you then leverage it and whatever equity you've paid into it against other loans.

It was... 2009 I think when I got my condo, which was a federally backed loan with zero downpayment, they just punished you on your taxes for a few years.

If I was still living in my condo I'd have paid it off already and be living rent/mortgage free, but also I'd probably have killed myself because it was a terribly depressing place to live. No natural light, tiny windows in the wrong directions. Terrible cheap 80s style construction. Yuck.

@feld i don't even know where to start with this... many people who are poor have previous experience with debt and are not going to take out a loan, even if they could, for some abstract benefit, because they're used to being punished for doing that (credit cards, overdraft, etc.).

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@lw America is a debt-based society. It's how our entire economy works. Everyone is in debt all the time. It's the only way this country functions. Very few people have zero debt.

But even so, what is there to be terrified of?

It's just math. If your electricity bill is $250/month and you can get battery+solar but only be paying a $200/mo loan for 5 years, this is obvious. You save yourself $3000 by signing a piece of paper and just going through with it.

And as a bonus your home value gets a bump because of it. It's a win/win situation.