Egregoros

@feld

These people were likely doomed unless they could somehow completely avoid ever being exposed to the virus.

This is such a weird assertion when the vaccine was rolled out a whole year after the virus and basically all the "essential workers" still had regular contact with the public. Nobody tested for this but I would bet money many people hurt by the shots would show evidence of having at least a variant in their system.

Unless we're believing that SARS-COV-2 is somehow magic and didn't actually do anything until late 2021.
@hazlin

@feld
Correlation isn't causation and all that.
One of the signs the data was cooked was that the data also showed that the shot reduced literally every kind of death (including accidents and murder) which basically means some "healthy user bias" is baked in at minimum.

Also, how many shots just one or the whole recommended schedule? Cause that matters too.

But all that is irrelevant because you're asserting that for every case the virus must be more lethal than the shot and that doesn't account for a great many things. At minimum I think it's basically impossible for a vast majority of people to not have caught a virus/variant by 2021 given how lockdowns were actually done even here in Ontario, which was one of the more serious jurisdictions.

Some go as far as to argue the whole virus was a charade. In hindsight it's actually pretty hard to rule that out when you consider the fact that the data is making that assertion.

@hazlin

@feld

It accounts for a lot, actually. The real disease comes with systemic inflammation and a many other things that the vaccine cannot cause. That's why we know it to be less harmful than the actual virus.

Getting back to my point here, we agree that an infection (at an arbitrary time and variant) is not the same as the shot for a variety of reasons.

It can both be true that the shot is less dangerous but also that someone who died from one may not always die from the other. That's the distinction I'm trying to make.

It's also worth putting out that there was more than one kind of shot and one of them even got pulled (Astrazenica?) So it's not at all implausible that they would have dangers that don't overlap perfectly. Especially when you consider commorbities to particular problems.

But to be clear I don't think you can trust the official data on Covid as a whole because anyone who asked difficult questions got shunned and fired from basically any institution. I understand that doesn't really make my case compelling, so all I'm trying to say is that it can be a lot more complicated than "if they die from the shot the virus 100% was gonna get them". Which is an awfully convenient story for everyone involved with lockdown harms and vaccine injury.

@hazlin