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Gabriel

One of my biggest frustrations with "kids these days" sentiments is that you've had generations of kids neglected by dual working/single parents and the languishing amounts to "why didn't the kids just raise themselves?".

But they have to double down on those sentiments because the alternative is to acknowledge being part of an immense collective failure and horror.

hazlin -326/???

@hazlin@annihilation.social remote

@gabriel
I know some people who pushed their spouse to take the covid vaccine and, their spouse immediately died.

But, they still push the vaccine, and will not in anyway recognize that they have caused.

People cannot carry the weight of being wrong.

Now with 25% more charisma

@feld@friedcheese.us remote

@hazlin @gabriel why can't people understand that the cytokine response from the vaccine would likely have produced the same response from the real virus and these people would have been harmed the same way from their own immune system anyway? In fact, the data says it would have been worse for them because the real infection comes with inflammation and other issues beyond just the cytokine response.

So the vaccine didn't trigger some magical behavior that the virus cannot. We know what it did, and we know the virus does to people with these immune systems too. The odds are that the vaccine have been less severe for these people.

It sucks. Their immunological response went crazy and we didn't have a way to deal with it. This is something we need to figure out for any novel virus like this -- some way to get the desired immunity while tempering the cytokine response. I don't think we have the tools to do so.

These people were likely doomed unless they could somehow completely avoid ever being exposed to the virus.

Gabriel

@gabriel@mstdn.starnix.network remote

@feld

These people were likely doomed unless they could somehow completely avoid ever being exposed to the virus.

This is such a weird assertion when the vaccine was rolled out a whole year after the virus and basically all the "essential workers" still had regular contact with the public. Nobody tested for this but I would bet money many people hurt by the shots would show evidence of having at least a variant in their system.

Unless we're believing that SARS-COV-2 is somehow magic and didn't actually do anything until late 2021.
@hazlin

Now with 25% more charisma

@feld@friedcheese.us remote

@gabriel @hazlin the data we have actually shows the e.g., cardiac events were less common in people who took the vaccine

Replying to @feld@friedcheese.us

Now with 25% more charisma

@feld@friedcheese.us remote

@gabriel @hazlin

- A meta-analysis found the relative risk of myocarditis was 7-fold higher from SARS-CoV-2 infection than from vaccination (RR: 15 for infection vs. RR: 2 for vaccine) [ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9467278/ ]

- The Nature study of ~38 million people found 40 excess myocarditis events per million following SARS-CoV-2 infection, versus only 1–10 per million following vaccination [ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 ]

- The CDC MMWR study across 40 healthcare systems confirmed cardiac complication risk was significantly higher after infection than vaccination for both sexes and all age groups [ https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7114e1.htm ]

- COVID-19 patients had higher cytokine levels than vaccinated participants, while vaccinated individuals had higher antibody levels [ https://www.sciencedirect.com/org/science/article/pii/S1148549324000015 ]

yes I used the slop machine to pull these up because I haven't dug into this in a couple years and my bookmarks to studies are not well organized

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