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@p This is a good analysis, and I can confirm that there is indeed some coordination between the organizations and people you mentioned. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, though. I know some of them well enough to conclude that it is a not a single organization, but a loose group. Some of them seem to be fake, but others seem to be sincere in their convictions.

I'd like to share a couple of additional links you may find interesting:

- https://about.iftas.org/yoel/

Remember this guy? Given the timing, I suspect that some of these projects were supposed to be sinecures for former Twitter employees.

- https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/pulls/140

This is a draft of a FEP about mandatory CSAM scanning. As one of the FEP repo maintainers, I immediately raised concerns about privacy, centralization, etc. That made me persona non grata at W3C.

@phnt @p Curiously, Gleason was supportive of the proposal, although at the time he already moved to Nostr (IIRC).

Also, some strange things started to happen in the aftermath of closing that PR. I started seeing vague posts expressing moderation concerns on Codeberg and SocialHub (in this thread, for example: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/scope-of-the-socialhub-policy/3506). People suddenly started talking about adding a CoC, etc etc. But every time I asked what this is about, there was silence.

@silverpill @phnt

> Curiously, Gleason was supportive of the proposal

Is that curious?

> Also, some strange things started to happen in the aftermath of closing that PR. I started seeing vague posts expressing moderation concerns on Codeberg and SocialHub (in this thread, for example: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/scope-of-the-socialhub-policy/3506). People suddenly started talking about adding a CoC, etc etc. But every time I asked what this is about, there was silence.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT
@silverpill @phnt Okay, well, to be fair, the timestamp on the "Scope of the socialhub policy" post is August 1, 2023, and the "PhotoDNA Attestation extension" is from August 4, but I think that was possibly preemptive, because he posted this on August 18:

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/scope-of-the-socialhub-policy/3506/9

> Thanks. So, if I have a problem with how someone is behaving in PRs on codeberg, what do I do next?

And then in https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/scope-of-the-socialhub-policy/3506/12 and https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/scope-of-the-socialhub-policy/3506/13 , he made it explicit that this was about the PhotoDNA discussion.

And he directly retreats into "But think of the optics of not thinking of the children!"

> I ended up withdrawing the PR. I had adapted the proposal in the Stanford Internet Observatory’s Child Safety report into a FEP to start the discussion process. I was attacked personally in the comments, and the FEP wasn’t allowed to be merged. I don’t think it helped our movement to have such vigorous opposition to developing CSAM filtering standards.

@p Reminds me of what Chapman says in the first essay I ever read on Meaningness;

"... you could recognize sociopaths and eject them. Geeks may be pretty good at the recognizing, but are lousy at the ejecting. Mops don’t recognize sociopaths, and anyway don’t care. Mops have little investment in the subculture, and can just walk away when sociopaths ruin it. By the time sociopaths show up, mops are numerically most of the subculture."

https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

@icedquinn @fish @phnt @silverpill

@strypey @light @p @fish @phnt @silverpill that isn't what popper wrote even though it is deeply misquoted.

the paradox of tolerance is an open society always contains the possibility that people vote away their open society. it is the sine qua non of an open society. once you have thought police "to protect democracy" you no longer have an open society. and have extinguished your liberal democracy.

the society protects from violence against extreme opinions and vigilance protects against voting the extreme opinions in to place. you can't get rid of it without no longer having the thing you are trying to protect.

nobody seems to have ever read the book.

(1/?)

@icedquinn
> nobody seems to have ever read the book

I admit I haven't (I must), but I did investigate what Popper actually said;

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

https://www.libertarianism.org/columns/paradox-tolerance

@fish @phnt @p @silverpill @light

@strypey @fish @phnt @p @silverpill @light
if you read the book, the context of this claim is after 25% of the book goes on about how much popper hates plato and spent chapters reiterating "plato's republic is authoritarian as fuck, actually"

the stuff about limited tolerance is spoken in direct context of people exiting a classical authoritarian society and discussing the dangers of grognards sliding society directly back in to hierarchical strong man cultures.

people don't read it and decide it means calling randos nazis but it was spoken with the very real and ongoing concern throughout time of people rotting democracy back in to dictatorships.

poppers smugness is that if violence is off the table, then reason holds for the best argument, and the best argument is empirically the open society, so they have the advantage of self-demonstrating being the best outcome and not needing special favor.

the whole book is very much against authoritarian solutions to problems. unlimited tolerance is spoken next to societies that literally did the "someone is a threat to our power with their words, kill them" behavior people actually misquote the paradox to justify.
@p @icedquinn @fish @phnt @strypey @silverpill @light
Tweets having 140 character limit made sense before smartphones, when we used Twitter via sms (text 40404) . Not sure why Mastodon castrates itself for any reason other than fetish.

Does any Mastodon instance have Twitter-like text messaging or did they ever? I remember statusnet had xmpp built in but I don't think we ever had proper texting set up. (Maybe this is something revolver should consider)

As long as Mastodon is wearing a chastity belt, the char length be 140 instead of 280 (tweets 2.0 - now twice as much) / 500 (toots are almost twice as big as tweets 2.0 but 500 is a nice round number) because it's a number that actually makes sense

maybe they can get government funding from EU to implement sms integration to make it easier for the government to protect their users.

@sampler @icedquinn @fish @p @strypey @silverpill @light The reason is Gargron was autistic about his vision of a Twitter replacement and posts longer than 500 chars look ugly in the UI. It's a problem that will never get fixed because Mastodon desperately wants to be a Twitter alternative including the way it looks and displays threads.

The actual solution would be to widen the post view and decrease post text size, but that is too much to ask.

@p
> WE HAVE TO GET YOU MORE LETTERS

If multi-post threads really bother you I can switch to my Friendica account. I keep forgetting I have it, and I *hate* the cludgy interface with a burning passion. But if you *really* need me to ...

> He should try having a better frontend. (Tweetdeck has always sucked.)

The default Masto interface is modelled on Pinafore and has been for years. Although the one modeled on TD is still there as an opt-in.

@icedquinn @fish @phnt @sampler @silverpill @light

@strypey @icedquinn @fish @phnt @sampler @silverpill @light

> If multi-post threads really bother you

Not really, it just seems like at some point, tagging overhead eats the limit. Even Twitter stopped doing that, like, tags and links stopped counting towards the character limit. Mastodon *could* do the former because tags are an extra field (and more or less unconstrained).

I do think that it does make threads harder to read and participate in (by increasing the likelihood of duplication: if you have two paragraphs and the second one covers something relevant to the first, but people that go chronologically see the first one and then write a different version of your second paragraph before finding your second paragraph; this can compound, it is very funny when it does), but I'm just pokin' yer ribs, I ain't tore up.

> The default Masto interface is modelled on Pinafore and has been for years. Although the one modeled on TD is still there as an opt-in.

Ah. I mean...you see the UI that I wrote and use, I'm not sure what Pinafore *is*. (And if it gives you an idea, I used to use the bitlbee Twitter backend as my only Twitter interface. Until they killed off *all* alternative clients, you could have a reasonable time with Twitter by treating it like an IRC channel.)
@strypey @icedquinn @fish @phnt @sampler @silverpill @light For one thing, short names on short instances producing short tags. They've enshrined as behavior some half-assed incorrect encoding of the *intended* behavior and this is how you end up with crusty, shitty behavior that is *mandated* because otherwise it doesn't *work*.

This is why Mastodon should be completely ignored by protocol implementors: they want to be the Mastodon Network, fine, let them. Stop letting them stomp on protocol design because someone on a jithub issue whined until someone did the dumbest fucking implementation that solved half of the wrong problem. It is time to cut them loose.

@silverpill @icedquinn @fish @sampler @p @strypey @light

https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/pulls/7875

This does not implement anything meaningful in the spec and only makes quotes work on Mastodon (because they even fucked up that which worked for years before their attempt).

Trust me when I say that if the proper workflow as envisioned by Mastodon gets implemented in Pleroma, it gets patched out by most larger Pleroma instances almost immediately. Myself included, so if Nicole doesn't make it a toggle, I will. Nobody but Mastodon wants this, and I don't want the Twitter copy of hidden replies either.

@silverpill @phnt @icedquinn @fish @sampler @strypey @light

> Like, what's the plan? Let Mastodon/W3C do their thing until incompatibilities accumulate and the network splits?

They are not meaningfully a part of the fediverse at this point. They have made a Twitter. It is no longer a platform that you use to communicate with friends: it is a broadcast-only circle-jerk and when it fails to be a broadcast-only circle-jerk people that want to "control the experience" and that can't distinguish between startup dipshittery and tech built by people to communicate with each other. Look at the early posts by the hachyderm dipshit, that guy's like "Oh, this isn't going to work, we have to eject these people and we have to make it advertiser-friendly because if we don't then fedi will never replace Twitter!" I don't want to replace Twitter with a shitty clone of Twitter: I want to replace Twitter with something good.

I intend to have a platform to communicate with friends and strangers. I don't really care if Mastodon decides to create a desert and call it peace. They have fundamentally different goals. Nobody complained when Gab fucked off (and they were, in many cases, fucked off before that: https://pastebin.com/E0k5fcd6 ), but somehow Mastodon is important? Go look at what they're putting onto the network: https://mastodon.social/explore .
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@Mammal @fish @icedquinn @light @phnt @sampler @silverpill @strypey Nothing of value was lost.

There was a lot of the same hand-wringing: "they're the most active instance!" and it's like...do you want to see that activity? For at least a month, the *majority* of their activity was a single account that posted three times per second. I saw the bot, killed the bot, could not tell Gab about the bot because Gab blocked FSE. (Gleason was working at Gab at the time, I told Gleason and offered to help Gab quell the bot problem and told him to pass along the offer to Colbert; Gleason agreed but Colbert says Gleason never relayed the message. At the time, it was in my own interest to stop the flood at the source because Gab was essentially DoSing FSE by constantly flooding us with bot shit. I got to do k-means and come up with interesting ways to automatically detect bots, I was having fun.)

And now it's handwringing, what if we lose Mastodon? What *if*? They're as bad as the Gablins. There are people using fedi to communicate and there are people using fedi to broadcast and try to push their agenda and, you know, fuck the latter category.
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@p @icedquinn @fish @phnt @sampler @strypey @silverpill @light @Mammal

“For at least a month, the *majority* of their activity was a single account that posted three times per second. I saw the bot, killed the bot, could not tell Gab about the bot because Gab blocked FSE.”

Gab used to have a bot account called “jsheistydiety” that posts hi-res screenshots of low res boomer memes at multiple times per minute. And it had a comped yellow circle during imagocaust 2024.

@StarProphet @icedquinn @fish @phnt @sampler @strypey @silverpill @light @Mammal

> Gab used to have a bot account called “jsheistydiety” that posts hi-res screenshots of low res boomer memes at multiple times per minute.

So, that's something I saw; I suspected that the Gab Trends was gamed so I did some analysis but it was really difficult to get some sort of clean view of Gab Trends (clickwrapping plus downtime plus their shit was difficult for both humans and bots to read). But I found this group of accounts that would all post the same set of Pepes and then randomly they would post the same link as all the others did, and then that link would show up on Gab Trends.

There was some recipe bot that would shit recipes scraped from recipe sites and the guy was claiming to be a Vietnam War sniper (his account was something like "sniperss"), right, a member of a unit that didn't exist during the Vietnam War, and now he's a "hotel chef" and he purported to be posting his own recipes but he wasn't even using the same units consistently; his top posts were all spelled and punctuated properly but his replies were all weird shit definitely not written by an American and he'd end them with "thank you,,david", weird shit. So I noticed a lot of accounts had that pattern, their top-level posts were

The most reliable indicator was that the bots would engage in some really easy-to-analyze behavior: they'd post uniformly around the clock (humans sleep), the overwhelming majority of their activities would be posts/reposts. That is, very few likes and very few replies to people that didn't tag them, very few follow/unfollow/block; this is expected of spambots, right, they aren't going to put any effort into something that doesn't put something on your screen, but they would reply when you interacted with them because it's worth their time to evade detection. So their replies read like they were written by offshore clickfarm dudes, like someone was running a few hundred bot accounts and then they'd send the replies to some sort of centralized place, right, like so they could reply "no im not bot" or "thank you,,david". You could plausibly run a massive farm like that, like several hundred accounts per guy. (They didn't have an obvious commercial interest, so it's possible that people were right with their suspicion that Gab was using clickfarms to look more active than it was.)

But the behavior made it easy to detect them: I wrote a little script that would look at all of the activity an account did, look at the ratio of normal activity to broadcast-style activity and how flat their activity was over 24 hours, and then draw a sparkline graph so I could visually inspect. This was really helpful for identifying bots, no ML stuff required even. And then once that was easy to do, I could do k-means clustering to see who was following them, and I iced about a hundred accounts on FSE that had posted just gibberish or nothing at all but were following only Gab spambot accounts. (I hated the spam and it actually cost me money by forcing me to upgrade boxes on Frantech, but it was fun to come up with bot-detection stuff.)

> And it had a comped yellow circle during imagocaust 2024.

I don't know what that is, like I heard something had to do with making image-posting a "Pro" feature, but I also don't really have any interest in Gab except where they intersected with fedi.
@p @icedquinn @fish @phnt @sampler @strypey @silverpill @StarProphet @light I applaud your anti spam efforts. I think ai spam was a bigger problem on gab in the past because they were trying to disguise the loss of users that killing federation represented. I can understand why gab today is being given the truth social treatment on modern fedi.

Originally the dissent memes were on discord, and they only moved to gab once discord got taken over, so gab is now like a historical host for dissent content. The regime is going to promote mainstream twitter over alt twitters.

This was the argument I had with graf which is that to survive as an alt twitter you have to have anti-regime moderation. Otherwise it's a step backwards into discord era. I'm defeded from poast because in my view they run things like a woke website and it's insincere spirit of dissent. Gab was basically a middle finger to trump, nobody was gatekeeping shit on there, the regime guys were just getting dog walked over and over again until they quit.
@Mammal @StarProphet @fish @icedquinn @light @phnt @sampler @silverpill @strypey

> so gab is now like a historical host for dissent content

I went there for a few days in 2016 or 2017. I posted some images and then I wondered aloud how Gab was different from Twitter: Twitter was alleged by Jack and Biz to be "the free speech wing of the free speech party" and that was bullshit eventually. So then I saw this "Gab" thing and it was supposed to be like that but forreals this time and I checked it out and I wondered aloud, "How is this any different from Twitter? There's no real guarantee except a promise and we had that with Twitter and look how that turned out." and I got screamed at by some guy with a Bible quote in his bio and wraparound sunglasses in his avatar. I knew it was full of bots because years later, I started getting inundated with "StormGirl1488 has followed you". I didn't see any "dissent". I do know a lot of people that think ranting about Jews qualifies as dissent but I saw enough of that on fedi, I didn't need to go to another website to see that.

> Originally the dissent memes were on discord

Discord didn't exist when dissent memes were getting passed around.

> I'm defeded from poast because in my view they run things like a woke website and it's insincere spirit of dissent.

I'm not sure what this means, but before Poast arrived on fedi, people were accusing me of being "woke" or being "another Torba" and that shit didn't land on FSE and it doesn't land on Poast, though they're a little quicker with the block button. niggy (SAY HER NAME) hacked UMN and CUNY and lives on Poast and that's dissent (and a fun time).

> Gab was basically a middle finger to trump

Gab was shilling for Trump from its inception until Trump was unbanned from Twitter. I got those emails, too. I got the "Please beg President Trump to join Gab!" and then I got this one where the subject line was wishful clickbait:
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@p @Mammal @StarProphet @fish @icedquinn @light @phnt @sampler @silverpill @strypey Yeah Gab courted Trump, and when the Trump campaign looked at their non-bot engagement/users laughed them outta the room.

Torbu then made up some bullshit story about Trump wanting Blab censored and started barking about how freezepeach was under attack, begged for money, then set up a mirror that reposted every one of Fat Orange Carnie's CAPS RIDDLED tweets.

Pepperidge Farm 'membas...

Replies

14
@p @icedquinn @Spooke @fish @vii @phnt @SilverDeth @strypey @silverpill @StarProphet @light @Mammal

The worst part about getting targeted by feds is they will send dozens of beautiful women to you to try and take you down. They'll take you out on luxurious dates and try to spoil you with fancy bottles and the drugs celebrities take. Trips to Vegas

I managed to cheat the system, enjoying the beautiful women and their gifts with none of the jail time or cooperation.
@Mammal @SilverDeth @Spooke @StarProphet @fish @icedquinn @light @phnt @sampler @silverpill @strypey @vii

> there are no nazis, there's just zionists pretending to be one.

I have had this discussion with about a dozen people a day, every day of my life, starting with the day that I decided to name a Pleroma instance "free speech extremist".

Curiously, there's always a flare-up of this sort of conversation in threads where I have noticed glowies. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action, and it stops at three but I think if I could say "every goddamn time"...Look, I don't mean to bite your head off but I'm going to if you start insisting that you're blowing my mind with the truth bombs and that I'm brainwashed and that because I don't think the shit you think now, then I must think the same shit you thought five years ago. You walk from point A to point B and you think everyone that isn't at point B with you must be at point A. "Everyone I don't agree with is a Zionist shill." Okay. "Wait, that's not what I said!"

> there are no nazis, there's just zionists pretending to be one. nazis don't have any government resources to throw at you. it's more splc fuentes type stuff

Turns out it's *exactly* what you said.

You didn't look at the image. Alex Linder tried to get the DRC admin arrested by signing up on his instance and threatening to blow up a bunch of Jewish hospitals. You don't need "government resources to throw at someone". I've seen the atomwaffles and I have seen the gablins and I have seen lil Dickie Spencer and I have seen the GLR fanboys and you can go ask what they think about me. I don't intend to engage on this topic because:

> it's more splc fuentes type stuff

YOU FUCKING DOOMSCROLLING MONKEY

WHILE YOU ARE HALLUCINATING LINKS TO THE SPLC

THIS WAS A THREAD ABOUT IFTAS

WHICH IS PAINTING A BULLSEYE ON FEDI

AND LEGIT *IS* LINKED TO SPLC MONEY

AND THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY

WHICH IS THE FUCKING CIA

AND YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT EVERY GABLIN THAT TRIED TO CAUSE TROUBLE WAS SECRETLY LINKED TO THE SPLC

IN ORDER TO DERAIL A CONVERSATION

ABOUT CONCRETE EVENTS

OPENLY

GODDAMN OPENLY

OPENLY LINKED TO THE SPLC

THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING TO ME

https://datarepublican.com/expose/?custom_graph=131624046%2C042103594%2C430084%3B042103594%2C262048480%2C385000%3B262048480%2C205806345%2C837890%3B205806345%2C932011167%2C384375%3B521344831%2C133615533%2C166667%3B133615533%2C205806345%2C1710000%3B521943638%2C521338892%2C64298125%3B521338892%2C520846183%2C312658%3B520846183%2C951922279%2C810431%3B951922279%2C110303001%2C104696%3B110303001%2C205806345%2C90815505%3B943027961%2C522096845%2C146636%3B522096845%2C133191113%2C51000%3B133191113%2C205806345%2C295273%3B133586432%2C135598093%2C47661%3B135598093%2C630598743%2C651000%3B630598743%2C205806345%2C275000%3B132702768%2C521257057%2C953939%3B521257057%2C116107128%2C619108%3B116107128%2C205806345%2C30000%3B131656647%2C521847010%2C375000%3B521847010%2C133191113%2C12000&title=IFTAS%20INC&return_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatarepublican.com%2Fofficers%2F%3Fnonprofit_kw%3D932011167
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