>Being anti-censorship makes you a Nazi apologist
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@scathach not directly related but the term "free speech" is going to forever bother me because it does not exist. No i dont mean "everything is so censored" now i mean it literally does not exist as a concept. Ive never once heard anyone define it in a way that didn't sound like handwavy schizophrenia.
@RustyCrab @scathach lol how do you mean?
@RustyCrab @scathach It's not an apriori thing as such, it's a doctrine with a specific goal: to prevent power from leveraging an ability to control communication (and therefore thought) into a destructive tyranny.
in edge cases there's room for interpretation but the overall intent of it is pretty clear and useful.
@bajax @scathach its "useful" but its not at all clear. When people say that they normally mean "freedom from consequences" which does not make sense in any world. The law is full of exceptions on this and discussions always fall into "well THATS not free speech thats..."
my point is its a nonsensical concept to try and work around the reality that two groups with irreconcilable differences should probably not be living together
my point is its a nonsensical concept to try and work around the reality that two groups with irreconcilable differences should probably not be living together
@RustyCrab @bajax @scathach communists don't believe in it in the first place but they'll happily use it while you're in power to undermine you, until they are in power.
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@mirq @bajax @RustyCrab @scathach sure it’s just fadcist philosophy definitely doesn’t permit it either so you know 100% they’re bad faith too
@sun @bajax @RustyCrab @scathach
Absolutely, I was just adding to your point
I feel like radicals by definition cannot and do not support free speech, even if they've managed to fool themselves into thinking that they do
Not super interested in engaging in what the rest of the thread is about but this one tidbit is interesting I think
Absolutely, I was just adding to your point
I feel like radicals by definition cannot and do not support free speech, even if they've managed to fool themselves into thinking that they do
Not super interested in engaging in what the rest of the thread is about but this one tidbit is interesting I think
@mirq @bajax @RustyCrab @sun @scathach
Fascists aren't radicals, but how can radicals "by definition" be opposed to free speech? I haven't read anything in Marx or other major left wing thinkers to support suppression of speech. Free speech is thought of more as a liberal virtue but I don't see it as being at odds with leftism. Historically it's very much the right wing that has a problem with free speech
Fascists aren't radicals, but how can radicals "by definition" be opposed to free speech? I haven't read anything in Marx or other major left wing thinkers to support suppression of speech. Free speech is thought of more as a liberal virtue but I don't see it as being at odds with leftism. Historically it's very much the right wing that has a problem with free speech
@sampler @bajax @RustyCrab @sun @scathach
How are fascists not radicals?
To your other point, the ussr was very big on limiting speech (including but not limited to music and movies) by inflicting punishment (including but not limited to gulag time) for it.
Either you don't believe the ussr to be leftist/striving for leftist ideals or you don't believe that they limited speech, otherwise your dismissal doesn't make much sense
My belief is that people with extreme and strong beliefs all unanimously prioritize the enstatement of whatever their belief system is over free speech, because the latter can and will very often present obstacles to the former
How are fascists not radicals?
To your other point, the ussr was very big on limiting speech (including but not limited to music and movies) by inflicting punishment (including but not limited to gulag time) for it.
Either you don't believe the ussr to be leftist/striving for leftist ideals or you don't believe that they limited speech, otherwise your dismissal doesn't make much sense
My belief is that people with extreme and strong beliefs all unanimously prioritize the enstatement of whatever their belief system is over free speech, because the latter can and will very often present obstacles to the former
@mirq @bajax @RustyCrab @sampler @scathach if you disagree with marxism you are counterrevolutionary and can be punished. no right to be "wrong"