"Y bad thing happened in Bible?"
Is just the whole atheist argument.
Is just the whole atheist argument.
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"Y do people die in Bible"
I have to admit I'm impressed with their hubris
The argument is always, if this, why that? It's just so exhausting to watch. They never ask why Mohammad married a 7 year old though.
Well Aisha was 9 and girls matured faster back then or something so it's okay to the sand nigger
@matty @Red-Potato what's exhausting is whataboutism about which religion excuses pedophilia less or more
@jeremiah @Red-Potato @matty idk there's way too many of them (religions I mean), but in terms of Abrahamic faiths it was generally understood that pastoral cultures were patriarchal in comparison to agricultural societies that leaned more matriarchal
also way too many cultures that believed if "she bleeds she's free", not including pedastry that was common among several ancient civilizations
What I mean to say is, while I have criticism of all Abrahamic religions and their attitudes towards women and children, these were not uncommon sentiments for the time. Obviously, some religions such as Islam have not caught up to contemporary times and have not shifted as much on their original viewpoints compared to Christianity (umbrella).
also way too many cultures that believed if "she bleeds she's free", not including pedastry that was common among several ancient civilizations
What I mean to say is, while I have criticism of all Abrahamic religions and their attitudes towards women and children, these were not uncommon sentiments for the time. Obviously, some religions such as Islam have not caught up to contemporary times and have not shifted as much on their original viewpoints compared to Christianity (umbrella).
@subnetter @Red-Potato @matty is the "leaned matriarchial" some reference to Gimbutas?
With only a few exceptions, mostly among hunter-gather level clan-scale societies, there's pretty much no evidence for matriarchical society.
The major proponent of the idea of widespread matriarchy is Marija Gimbutas, who suggested that a matriarchical old europe was pushed aside by indo-european speakers. She's embraced more by people in "studies" departments than archaeologists and other students of antiquities.
With only a few exceptions, mostly among hunter-gather level clan-scale societies, there's pretty much no evidence for matriarchical society.
The major proponent of the idea of widespread matriarchy is Marija Gimbutas, who suggested that a matriarchical old europe was pushed aside by indo-european speakers. She's embraced more by people in "studies" departments than archaeologists and other students of antiquities.
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@jeremiah @Red-Potato @matty I need to brush up on this topic because it's been a while since I have studied it, but there were a couple matriarchal societies, however just because a culture was agricultural does not mean it was 100% a matriarchy, they just might have had different attitudes compared to more patriarchal societies
I don't remember if it was the Greeks, but I believe this culture was considered agricultural and their veneration of goddesses associated with fertility may have played a part in that
Sorry if this isn't a comprehensive answer but it's been a while since I dived deep into this and I don't want to misrepresent things. I heard Myanmar was also agricultural?
I don't remember if it was the Greeks, but I believe this culture was considered agricultural and their veneration of goddesses associated with fertility may have played a part in that
Sorry if this isn't a comprehensive answer but it's been a while since I dived deep into this and I don't want to misrepresent things. I heard Myanmar was also agricultural?
@subnetter @jeremiah @Red-Potato @matty there were matriarchies in mesopotamia, sumerian religion was matriarchal but that got wiped out with marduk
@sun @subnetter @Red-Potato @matty do you have rceipts for that? Sumerian religion certianly had goddess figures, but the hierarchy, witnessed by their texts, was mostly patriarchical.
@jeremiah @Red-Potato @matty @subnetter it depends who you ask but even the religion became patriarchal at that point
@sun @Red-Potato @matty @subnetter how do we know that? What evidence do we have of this transition?
@jeremiah @Red-Potato @matty @subnetter please don't ask me to go deep into this, I studied it at university and don't have all that information at my fingertips anymore
@sun @Red-Potato @matty @subnetter if you're going to make the claim, i would hope you could substantiate it for those of us who are interested in the topic and would like to see the material you're referencing.
@jeremiah @Red-Potato @matty @subnetter you will only get specialist commentary on this not primary sources. I don't want to defer to experts but I have to here.
@jeremiah @Red-Potato @matty @subnetter feel free to discard the info, there's not perfect records of the governments obviously but a lot of the power shifted from temple cults to the king
@sun
The more I see of how women tend to run things, the more I think that's necessary. Compassion is a good thing but it's not a good way to run an organization where rules matter and consequences are existentially important. So both government and religion.
@jeremiah @matty @subnetter
The more I see of how women tend to run things, the more I think that's necessary. Compassion is a good thing but it's not a good way to run an organization where rules matter and consequences are existentially important. So both government and religion.
@jeremiah @matty @subnetter
@subnetter @Red-Potato @matty The seminal Gimbutas text is probably The Civilisation of the Goddess, early 90s. I have a copy somehwere, but not in the here in office.
Agricultural societies are without exception patriarchies, and strongly associated with foreplanning, which becomes management and notions of ownership. As livestock becomes part of the process, the idea of owning and managing animals (husbandry) gives rise to the notion of the same sort of management (and ownership) of families.
A matriarchical society almost by definition would have to be free of notions of ownership of this kind, and therefore, have to be pre-agricultural, hunter-gathers, which is how we find the handful that exist.
The presence of female icons/statuary does not imply matriarchy, as the countless tons of statuary of the Virgin Mary or your pagan goddesses of choice from the IE pantheon bear witness to.
As far as fertility cults, this is common to almost all agricultural societies and possibly some advanced hunter-gatherer societies, but again, does not imply matriarchy as much as respect for the uniquely "female magic" of reproduction.
Agricultural societies are without exception patriarchies, and strongly associated with foreplanning, which becomes management and notions of ownership. As livestock becomes part of the process, the idea of owning and managing animals (husbandry) gives rise to the notion of the same sort of management (and ownership) of families.
A matriarchical society almost by definition would have to be free of notions of ownership of this kind, and therefore, have to be pre-agricultural, hunter-gathers, which is how we find the handful that exist.
The presence of female icons/statuary does not imply matriarchy, as the countless tons of statuary of the Virgin Mary or your pagan goddesses of choice from the IE pantheon bear witness to.
As far as fertility cults, this is common to almost all agricultural societies and possibly some advanced hunter-gatherer societies, but again, does not imply matriarchy as much as respect for the uniquely "female magic" of reproduction.