Jolla could capitalize so hard right now on Android getting closed off more and more by Google if they had a clue how to play this niche that is only going to get bigger. bringing back The Other Half and being able to get a modern phone running a Linux phone OS that actually works and isn't ugly and miserable to use, and has an Android compatibility layer, AND will soon likely have a physical QWERTY keyboard, AND has hackable open hardware modding (!) would be like next level getting in on the ground floor and pulling forward a space that is only going to keep growing
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16Jolla could capitalize so hard right now on Android getting closed off more and more by GoogleThey really could, if they actually made Sailfish OS less proprietary than Android.
That is currently not the case, so if you actually care about free and "open" software, Android is currently a better operating system than Sailfish.
That's also why I disagree with calling Sailfish a "Linux phone". It is misleading. Android also has a Linux kernel, so Android is also a "Linux phone".
@SuperDicq @nyx > Linux phone, while Android just is
Yeah, the one thing that Android isn't is Unix, that's the model that Android explicitly throws away. (See how anyone wanting a Unix environment on Android installs termux, which could be compared with Cygwin or WSL, specially in how it ends up jailed in a corner)
Could also put that SailfishOS (among others) isn't a gigantic monolithic system, but instead atomic system packages, so you can throw away stuff you don't like as well as replacing bits like a ship of thesus, something you can't cleanly do with Android.
Yeah, the one thing that Android isn't is Unix, that's the model that Android explicitly throws away. (See how anyone wanting a Unix environment on Android installs termux, which could be compared with Cygwin or WSL, specially in how it ends up jailed in a corner)
Could also put that SailfishOS (among others) isn't a gigantic monolithic system, but instead atomic system packages, so you can throw away stuff you don't like as well as replacing bits like a ship of thesus, something you can't cleanly do with Android.
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @nyx@social.xenofem.me Sailfish isn't Unix either, it's is GNU.
:^)
@SuperDicq @nyx Well, there's been some that have been certified in the past, Inspur K-UX and EulerOS for example, interestingly both RedHat derived.
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3622.htm
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3617.htm
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3622.htm
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3617.htm
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @nyx@social.xenofem.me Unix 3 is a certification, not an operating system. It just means these systems are POSIX compliant which is something that only corpos actually care about. It's not Unix (the operating system).
@SuperDicq @nyx Yeah, the certification bit is pretty much just UNIX trademark rights and corporate/US-federal-government (at least when it was also published through FIPS) box ticking.
As for Unix the OS. Or arguing about some sort of Unix Philosophy or copyright lineage.
Either Unix is dead (and starting to smell really bad), or Unix is still a thing.
As for Unix the OS. Or arguing about some sort of Unix Philosophy or copyright lineage.
Either Unix is dead (and starting to smell really bad), or Unix is still a thing.
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @nyx@social.xenofem.me If you ask me I would say ignore all the trademark and certification bullshit. In my opinion the last version of Unix was V10.5.
Unless you ask some weirdos who thinks all these weirdo corpo forks of V7 like Unixware and Solaris and shit like that are the latest versions of Unix.
And even weirder people who say BSD is still actually Unix because it originally started as a fork.
@SuperDicq @nyx Yeah, and that's one I can agree on (although I love saying that macOS is outdated as it's still UNIX 03 aka POSIX 2001, severely lagging behind FOSS unixes to the point where a bunch of stuff requires ifdefs or patching).
Although could still say that android isn't POSIX, which yeah, it isn't.
In a manner similar to like how RFCs don't need certification and whatnot but are still referred to.
Although could still say that android isn't POSIX, which yeah, it isn't.
In a manner similar to like how RFCs don't need certification and whatnot but are still referred to.
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @nyx@social.xenofem.me
FOSS unixesDoesn't exist. All versions of Unix are proprietary.
@SuperDicq @nyx FOSS POSIX, whatever, essentially the same thing.
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @nyx@social.xenofem.me POSIX and SUS are also not the same thing.
@SuperDicq @nyx Yeah but very related, like in the standards that got absorbed by SUS, POSIX still remains, while XPG is like a ghost that only seems to remain for incrementing variables like XOPEN_VERSION (XSI indicator), and SVID seems to be long dead.
Also technically, SUS is POSIX with XSI, with Unix certification adding X/Open Curses as well.
(I've been working on OpenGroup's testsuite since march, I know the mess ^^)
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @nyx@social.xenofem.me Why do you work with this crap anyways?
@SuperDicq @nyx I care about Unix portability (and part of it's history) so managing the standard makes sense.
To me the certification bit is pretty much just the income source, and certification is them running the testsuite, sending the logs and me validating it, so I don't end up having to deal with all kinds of Unixes. It's still pretty much "Not a foss system? Your bugs to deal with".
To me the certification bit is pretty much just the income source, and certification is them running the testsuite, sending the logs and me validating it, so I don't end up having to deal with all kinds of Unixes. It's still pretty much "Not a foss system? Your bugs to deal with".
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @nyx@social.xenofem.me
I care about Unix portability (and part of it's history)Why? I really don't care about that at all.
Why does it matter to you if your stuff is "compatible" with some 40 year old standard that almost nobody uses?
@SuperDicq @lanodan @nyx bsd compatibility is important to me because modern bsd systems are very nice to use operating systems , from which modern linux distros could really learn a lesson or two ngl . of course its not always tge case that such compatibility is necessary , but if one is able to keep it , why not do it ?
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