where would I ever get the idea that people around here consider iran to be the good guys?
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@spacemanspiff
Lawful attitude, yeah like hauling off and striking all of its neighbors the second this shit kicked off. It's possible to have problems with Israel without glazing the theocratic authoritarian goat fucking regime.
Based on the Israeli premise that they're just targeting places that Target them, they're targeting neighboring Nations that Harbor enemy bases? If anything Iran is just Israel with Browns as far as this shit goes. Goat fuckers that seem to be winning LOL
@capt_whitebeard
Hitting civilians instead of said bases is cruel and retarded. Also we've fucked them up in so many ways. We might not be able to change the regime, but calling that a win for Iran is pretty fucking stupid. You can oppose the war without being a complete idiot about it.
@spacemanspiff
They were already wrecked. Not going to change anything. We're going to end in a worse position than we were in before the war started. A war on the behalf of Israel, who routinely bombs civilian centers Children's Schools hospitals Etc, is never going to be to our benefit. I don't care about those people at all, I care about negative consequences from a bad decision on the behalf of a country that should be our enemy not our Ally
@capt_whitebeard
I pretty much completely agree with that part. I just get autistically annoyed when people say Iran is winning. It's a stupid war that we probably don't stand to gain much from, but the enemy can still lose much harder than us.
@spacemanspiff
Iran is "winning" the way Afghanistan "won"... It's not really a "win" to have your cities destroyed, your people killed, your infrastructure blown up, and basically be bombed back into the stone age...
But, it's also not a "loss" to bleed out the empire until they cut bait and run.
But the stakes here are MUCH higher, because when America does eventually cut bait, they will be losing control over the entire gulf region.
But, it's also not a "loss" to bleed out the empire until they cut bait and run.
But the stakes here are MUCH higher, because when America does eventually cut bait, they will be losing control over the entire gulf region.
@cjd
We actually changed the regime in Afghanistan before we left. We just picked a bunch of cowards that couldn't fight and dropped their weapons and ran the second the Taliban rolled back in. That was our mistake in some ways, but I don't blame our military too much for Afghans being hopelessly retarded.
@capt_whitebeard @spacemanspiff
I'm very jaded toward anything that sounds like "we won, but..." because it's the line that every sore loser says something like that.
I don't care about what happened, or woulda happened, or any of that. The only question is whose flag is flying right now...
I don't care about what happened, or woulda happened, or any of that. The only question is whose flag is flying right now...
@cjd
Sure, but people set unfair criteria for the US on what is a victory, then call everything else a defeat. Like Vietnam, where we sacrificed a lot to try and bring peace between the North and South, only for all the ceasefires to get violated the second we fuck off back home, and the side we backed fell a couple years later. Once we're gone, we don't really control what the locals do. That said, I agree that getting involved was really stupid.
@capt_whitebeard @spacemanspiff
> unfair criteria
Napoleon conquered Moscow, but he didn't conquer Russia...
There's a lot of things which are like this. Afghanistan the classic case since it fucked both the USSR and the US. Iran will be the same story, the terrain and population practically guarantee it.
Napoleon conquered Moscow, but he didn't conquer Russia...
There's a lot of things which are like this. Afghanistan the classic case since it fucked both the USSR and the US. Iran will be the same story, the terrain and population practically guarantee it.
@cjd
I hope it's not the same story, but I think you're probably correct. This seems to be a lesson we can't learn.
@capt_whitebeard @spacemanspiff
Loss in Iran will lead to loss of control over the middle east. Then that will lead to loss of ability to continue supporting Ukraine, which will lead to the collapse (or at least dramatic reform) of the EU...
That will lead to the end of the American Empire and the dollar as world reserve currency, which will lead to the 2nd American Civil War.
All that said, there's light at the end of the tunnel for most Americans because the main street economy will be much better off without the empire milking it for everything it's got in order to pay off everyone that needs to be paid off to keep the shitty system afloat.
That will lead to the end of the American Empire and the dollar as world reserve currency, which will lead to the 2nd American Civil War.
All that said, there's light at the end of the tunnel for most Americans because the main street economy will be much better off without the empire milking it for everything it's got in order to pay off everyone that needs to be paid off to keep the shitty system afloat.
Never before have the markets been so rigged then they are today. All of it is just fucking fake and gay. There is no winning in Iran because there's no clear objective? I mean what's Victory look like? Them not having a nuke? They already weren't having a nuke LMFAO they weren't even trying and even Trump's own people have been saying this. Why do you think Tulsi is out, she was saying it over a year ago that they had absolutely no evidence that Iran was trying to make a bomb. So what is victory? Them being controlled by israel? I mean the whole thing is fucked, there's no way to win when you have no objective of how to win. We will be infinitely worse off than that we were in January of this year.
@capt_whitebeard
The objective is regime change and they don't want to admit it. I think they were banking heavily on a Persian rebellion. I'm not sure whether the mullahs managed to kill enough protestors to quell the uprising, or if it was all just bullshit all along, but the rebellion is definitely not happening.
@spacemanspiff @cjd
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This is a classic problem, the propaganda department wants everyone to think Iran is on the cusp of revolution, and even if their bullshit gets printed in The Atlantic and it ranks on Reddit and all of the places where the intelligence analysts go after (at) work...
So even though they don't manage to convince anyone else, they convince themselves. Add to this a fuck ton of scammers who will tell the US government absolutely anything that they think is likely to get money and weapons given to them - and probably Russian and/or China funneling intelligence to the US which amounts to "I'll hold your beer, go for it" - added up and you get a picture of a country teetering on the edge.
In reality it's like imagining that China could throw some bombs on the US and Antifa will overthrow Trump...
So even though they don't manage to convince anyone else, they convince themselves. Add to this a fuck ton of scammers who will tell the US government absolutely anything that they think is likely to get money and weapons given to them - and probably Russian and/or China funneling intelligence to the US which amounts to "I'll hold your beer, go for it" - added up and you get a picture of a country teetering on the edge.
In reality it's like imagining that China could throw some bombs on the US and Antifa will overthrow Trump...