Egregoros · Phoenix Framework

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georgia

@georgia@netzsphaere.xyz remote

@lizzie I saw reference to the harrowing in first peter and thought of you.

elizabeth worm🔅

@lizzie@brain.worm.pink remote

@georgia :)

georgia

@georgia@netzsphaere.xyz remote

@lizzie are you a christian universalist

elizabeth worm🔅

@lizzie@brain.worm.pink remote

@georgia yeag

Locked Librarian

@patchuun@social.xenofem.me remote

@lizzie @georgia based

Locked Librarian

@patchuun@social.xenofem.me remote

@lizzie @georgia fuck hell

elizabeth worm🔅

@lizzie@brain.worm.pink remote

@patchuun @georgia im still a little cringe bc im a purgatorial universalist lol. not like “proportional punishment” i dont believe in retribution. more that heaven is a state of being rather than a place, and so finding oneself in it is a difficult process in the next life as it is in this one.

georgia

@georgia@netzsphaere.xyz remote

@lizzie @patchuun I think hell is a real physical place of great suffering some people who live lives very far from goodness go to, a place where the presence of God is much harder to feel than earth-like planes. I believe in a countably infinite multitude of varied existences and universes some better and some worse, where we are (re)born into account of our karma. however I think all achieve liberation eventually through karma yoga, jnana yoga, bhakti yoga or a meditation discipline like raja/laya/etc yoga. (or some combination of them) all the illumined mystics of the earth pretty much agree: the ultimate goal is union of the soul with God, and the easiest way to do this is through pure selfless love. thus all become one in Him, no one is left behind to suffer forever.

elizabeth worm🔅

@lizzie@brain.worm.pink remote

@georgia @patchuun i do think it involves a lot of real suffering, just as a more metaphysical place than physical. father of fathers st gregory of nyssa describes it as a ‘refining fire’. in a sense it does gain a proportionality imo, since clinging to one’s injustice brings suffering.

oddly a lot of the other church fathers seem to had a similar perspective that it was purification bc obv God doesnt do retribution, but unlike st gregory they thought that those in it would be claimed forever.

“the ultimate goal is union of the soul with God, and the easiest way to do this is through pure selfless love. thus all become one in Him, no one is left behind to suffer forever” trvke trvke trvke

elizabeth worm🔅

@lizzie@brain.worm.pink remote

@georgia @patchuun i also think sin makes hell present in this world, though what of hell stretches beyond this world doesn’t lead to others bearing your violence except in that the suffering of one is always the suffering of all

elizabeth worm🔅

@lizzie@brain.worm.pink remote

@georgia @patchuun i think the single biggest motivating factor in my universalism is that id rather be in a place of suffering than leave anyone behind in it

elizabeth worm🔅

@lizzie@brain.worm.pink remote

@georgia @patchuun like im not enlightened and ready to face any pain for the sake of love. thats really scary. the issue is just that any “heaven” in an ect scenario tortured my conscience when i was little and made me really afraid of dying and going anywhere at all.

elizabeth worm🔅

@lizzie@brain.worm.pink remote

@georgia @patchuun i remember being in church and singing along about “no more tears.” most of the people i care about are supposedly being tortured forever and im not allowed to be sad about that?

not obscene, just deeply concerning

@apophis@kill-corporations.enterprises remote

@lizzie @georgia @patchuun still unable to unsee the speculation (first encountered in sunday school at age 12, not something on a sketchy forum as an adult) of how the minds of the believers will be changed so that they see things the way God sees them and they will understand and rejoice that the sinners are suffering

i identify as an atheist for everyone's safety

Locked Librarian

@patchuun@social.xenofem.me remote

@apophis @lizzie @georgia horrifying

Replying to @patchuun@social.xenofem.me

not obscene, just deeply concerning

@apophis@kill-corporations.enterprises remote

@patchuun @lizzie @georgia "what if my red wan't your red" but it's good and evil but also what if your evil was the good for something you could never hope to fight, only helplessly protest in torment forever to the delight of the laughing children under that thing's total and absolute control...

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Replying to @apophis@kill-corporations.enterprises

georgia

@georgia@netzsphaere.xyz remote

@apophis @lizzie @patchuun this is fucked up, God is the most loving being. this is why mystics/Buddhas/yogis look on all with equal compassion and see equal inner divinity, seeing themselves in everyone and everyone in themselves and sharing their suffering in perfect empathy.