Remote working socialist fag encounters the actual working class of the first time and is not a fan lol
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@geistigbehindert the biggest worries of a working class man, trans and gay rights, ahh yes
@themilkman they think they are the working class
@geistigbehindert @themilkman "Modern day socialists" fight for the underclass, criminals and the unable-to-work, not the actual working class. Which is why they are the enemy of honest people.
@Jens_Rasmussen @geistigbehindert @themilkman >the actual working class
you're still lionizing the bottom of the pyramid which I wouldn't recommend.
you're still lionizing the bottom of the pyramid which I wouldn't recommend.
@WandererUber @geistigbehindert @themilkman As a national socialist, I have no issue with "lionizing" the foundation of the pyramid.
@Jens_Rasmussen The National Socialists have a concept of the great men of history, heroism, excellence, etc. The portrayal of common man as (more) honest and hard working and moral than the ones above him is what I nitpicked.
the Working Class is not equivalent to "productive people" in general. There is a tendency to claim that they are somehow "better" because they have to do manual labor instead of sitting in an office, etc.
In American-influenced discussions, this might not be as clear because they call it "white collar workers" but commonly, such rhetoric tries to flip the social hierarchy on its head and that's no good.
the Working Class is not equivalent to "productive people" in general. There is a tendency to claim that they are somehow "better" because they have to do manual labor instead of sitting in an office, etc.
In American-influenced discussions, this might not be as clear because they call it "white collar workers" but commonly, such rhetoric tries to flip the social hierarchy on its head and that's no good.
@WandererUber The hierarchy is not strictly speaking on its head, it is just important for the middle and upper classes to be respectful towards the people who do labor. Since there's a natural tendency towards mockery and disgust for people who earn less and work more manually than oneself, some "over correction" is required. However it's important that this respect is directed towards an ideal member of the working class though, and not someone who borders on being underclass.
@Jens_Rasmussen That's not what these words mean and you sidestepped basically everything I've said. That's okay though.
@WandererUber You said "don't lionize the working class, they are no better people than those in higher classes" and I say "they need some lionizing to make up for the sometimes unfair disdain that higher classes naturally have for them".
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@Jens_Rasmussen >they are no better people than those in higher classes
I didn't say that. And I believe that they are in many ways worse people (excepting foreign rule of course).
What I meant by my last reply is that you're not really using a common definition. Working Class is commonly the lowest part of a 3-part pyramid. Since there is an "underclass" in yours, and their distinction is that they don't work and mooch off others, a socialist will have trouble explaining where to put them. Because he thinks this is what the upper class and the bourgeoisie do.
That's what I indicated when I said Working Class is not equal to productive people. That's only true, and only by definition, for a commie.
I didn't say that. And I believe that they are in many ways worse people (excepting foreign rule of course).
What I meant by my last reply is that you're not really using a common definition. Working Class is commonly the lowest part of a 3-part pyramid. Since there is an "underclass" in yours, and their distinction is that they don't work and mooch off others, a socialist will have trouble explaining where to put them. Because he thinks this is what the upper class and the bourgeoisie do.
That's what I indicated when I said Working Class is not equal to productive people. That's only true, and only by definition, for a commie.
@WandererUber I don't care what a socialist retard who intentionally views the world wrong thinks.
@Jens_Rasmussen then maybe try not to use their lingo
@WandererUber As a national socialist, the phrase "working class" is also my lingo. And by using the phrase "underclass" I am making myself distinct from their lingo.
@Jens_Rasmussen give me your definition of "working class"
@WandererUber Hmm. Let me think.
Ignoring some cases bordering on middle- or underclass:
By today's definition a person of the working class is someone who is regularly* and gainfully employed in non-university-degree-requiring profession, is not a manager, is not a business owner and who cannot just leave the labor market early if they wanted to.
In the past some middle class jobs were more easily available without having a university degree, but from what I've seen, I don't think that has been the case for many decades.
*as opposed "irregularly", which would be someone who has trouble keeping a job or works illegally.
Ignoring some cases bordering on middle- or underclass:
By today's definition a person of the working class is someone who is regularly* and gainfully employed in non-university-degree-requiring profession, is not a manager, is not a business owner and who cannot just leave the labor market early if they wanted to.
In the past some middle class jobs were more easily available without having a university degree, but from what I've seen, I don't think that has been the case for many decades.
*as opposed "irregularly", which would be someone who has trouble keeping a job or works illegally.
@Jens_Rasmussen So income doesn't really factor into it? Even if the guy has the same income as a business owner, he is working class?
Someone who creates with his hands is working class. So is the small business owner who directly manages those people.
Thats true whether he earns $20 an hour or a million a year.
Thats different from the clerisy; jobs that are not first-order important for the continued existence of Mankind.
I’m a shrink. If all shrinks died tomorrow, the world would arguably be a better place. If all plumbers died, we would be Lord of the Flies in two weeks.
Thats true whether he earns $20 an hour or a million a year.
Thats different from the clerisy; jobs that are not first-order important for the continued existence of Mankind.
I’m a shrink. If all shrinks died tomorrow, the world would arguably be a better place. If all plumbers died, we would be Lord of the Flies in two weeks.
😭 thank a Plummer for he protects us from being india.
It bugs the shit out of me when “educated” people look down on those who do real work
Nigga, nothing involving email is real
Nigga, nothing involving email is real
@s2208 @kingboom777 @Jens_Rasmussen They make more money than you doing less. Are you saying you're stupid?
Hard work does not consecrate you to moral superiority
Hard work does not consecrate you to moral superiority
@WandererUber @s2208 @kingboom777 >Hard work does not consecrate you to moral superiority
Actually it does. Diligence is a virtue and sloth is a sin.
Actually it does. Diligence is a virtue and sloth is a sin.
@Jens_Rasmussen @s2208 @kingboom777 "Nietzsche spo- ah fuck."
-326/???
@s2208 @WandererUber @Jens_Rasmussen I create gobbo drawings with my hands, does that make me working class? 
@King_Noticer @s2208 @WandererUber I wouldn't say so. That's self-employed. Working class kinda requires being employed.
@WandererUber I've seen some people argue that it's all about income. "If you earn X you are working class, if you earn Y you are middle class, if you earn Z you are upper class", but I disagree that it is so simple.
It's kind of spreadsheet-thinking that takes away the human element. The same kind of thinking that thinks a white person and a non-white person is interchangeable, if given the same environment.
As for your question:
A business owner can run a business not doing very well and not earn a lot of money, which should mean that it far from realistic for a working class individual to surpass his gross income.
Even a non-struggling business owner might have less left on their bottom line than a working class worker who works in a higher skilled or highly demanding working class profession, although it is rare.
It's kind of spreadsheet-thinking that takes away the human element. The same kind of thinking that thinks a white person and a non-white person is interchangeable, if given the same environment.
As for your question:
A business owner can run a business not doing very well and not earn a lot of money, which should mean that it far from realistic for a working class individual to surpass his gross income.
Even a non-struggling business owner might have less left on their bottom line than a working class worker who works in a higher skilled or highly demanding working class profession, although it is rare.
@Jens_Rasmussen so it doesn't matter what he earns, it's just the fact that he doesn't have a degree and doesn't have enough money to quit.
okay.
That's not someone you should lionize
okay.
That's not someone you should lionize
@WandererUber I'd lionize him long before I'd lionize a manager who looks at spreadsheets.
@WandererUber And perhaps more importantly; many in the working class needs a lionized ideal to strive towards, because they are prone to shortsightedness and degeneracy.
@Jens_Rasmussen their ideal should be the upper classes. It is. "My kids should go to college so they don't have to work in the coal mines" worked quite well for quite some time.
@WandererUber The latest half-century of de-industrialization and degree inflation has taught me the lesson that everyone striving to go to university to get an office job is not a good thing.
The working class', and everyone else's for that matter, ideal should be for the workers in the coal mine to have decent working conditions and a pay that reflects the difficulties that come with the profession. Not for coal miners to be non-existent.
The working class', and everyone else's for that matter, ideal should be for the workers in the coal mine to have decent working conditions and a pay that reflects the difficulties that come with the profession. Not for coal miners to be non-existent.
@WandererUber @Jens_Rasmussen I'm really glad I went to college and am not busting my balls pulling cable in 110 degree weather outside right now.
